NOT controlled crying, but leave to cry

[ANiceSliceOfCake]

My boy is 10 months now. He often wakes up in the night, once for a feed and the rest he needs a cuddle, dummy, well I'm not sure why really,

I've heard people say maybe try not to rush straight in and see if he will settle, but how long do you think is too long?

When does it turn into controlled crying territory ?

We have a video monitor and if dd is moaning but laying down we leave her. Standing up - we go in. So for us not a fixed time but more how awake/ where she is between whining and crying she is

When it goes from a grizzly, grumpy whining or shouting to properly crying? You can hear the difference if you tune in.

You can let him moan and grizzle and work up to a cry if you think he'll settle but it's up to you. How long you wait is up to you, for some it would be a minute but for others it could be ten minutes etc. I started gradual retreat at about that age. Long slow process but very gentle on you and baby.

I knew I wouldn't do CIO or CC so I always returned as quickly as I could to avoid DS becoming really distressed and harder to comfort.

How does he settle to sleep at night?

You know the difference between your child's cries. When it stops being mildly pissed off grizzly 'oi! Come back here!' And starts veering into 'I'm getting upset,'
Don't leave it until they're really upset.

Try quietly being in the room doing something boring - folding clothes with your back turned or creasing a book

Reading! Not creasing

Thanks for your replies. That's the thing, he wakes up full on crying, no build up.

As soon as he sees me he stops, but he's taking ages to go back to sleep again, he fusses, he's dying to go back to sleep but struggles. Scratching his head and eyes, rolling on his front and can't get back.

I've kind of tried gradual retreat, but as its a tiny box room it's not really having much effect.

Routine starts after tea, can't do it much earlier as I'm back at work next month so this will be the times we do then.

Play
Bath
Breastfeed
Bed by 7pm

Sometimes he falls asleep on the boob and goes right to sleep, other times I put him down and he plays and messes till he falls asleep, but we keep popping in or he'd get upset.

Last night I tried to put him in his gro bag after his feed, to try to stop him falling asleep on me. He just stayed pretty mush asleep while I put him in it!

I've kind of tried gradual retreat, but as its a tiny box room it's not really having much effect.

I don't know what Gradual Withdrawal means to you, but to my way of doing GW, this seems like an odd sentence. Why would room size matter?

Gradual Withdrawal means staying with the child until asleep. Always giving baby enough comfort, reassurance and presence. But with a view that over time (slow and gradual - so over several months) small changes are made with a view to eventually reaching independent sleeping.

So now you breastfeed to sleep. Aim for unlatching and replacing with a dummy as soon as baby falls asleep, but continue holding baby in BF position until asleep. Then aim for the point where you can place baby in BR position but give dummy instead, cuddle until asleep.

This ^ would be progress, not breastfeeding to sleep.

Then tiny changes to get baby into the cot. So start settling baby to sleep in a cradle hold but not breastfeeding position. Then try doing it standing up. Then start putting baby down sooner - say if a 10 minute cuddle usually means baby is fast asleep and you can place in cot, try putting baby down just before fully asleep and then leaning over and into the cot to settle baby. Stay until asleep.

Each change involves still staying with baby until asleep. And no change is made until baby is happy with the previous change. Keep the changes tiny, almost unnoticeable.

Aim towards settling baby to sleep in the cot and staying with baby while going to sleep. Maybe a reassuring hand on baby's chest/back. Then just standing by the cot until asleep. Then waiting a step away from the cot, staying until asleep. Then facing away from cot. Then in doorway. etc.

A small room is actually good for Gradual Withdrawal, certainly the latter stages when the weekly changes involve withdrawing from the room. There will be fewer small changes needed until you are waiting outside the door for baby to go to sleep.

Sorry I thought my message didn't work so intended to re type it tonight! That's why it ended so abruptly.

I've got my terms muddled, I though gradual retreat was the same as the disappearing chair, so that's what I meant that the rooms so small there not much room for the chair to move from

I maybe not explained enough either, he seems that tired after his bath he falls asleep on the boob, he just goes into a milk coma!

Past 2 nights now I've fed him, then burped him them put him in his sleeping bag and he's still stayed asleep, just groaned a bit.

I dorm fancy bathing him on a full tum of milk as he's really giddy in there.

The times he doesn't fall asleep on the boob I out him down awake, then he does the eye scratching and messing about till eventually after 20-30 mins he falls asleep.

It's the night wakings that are killing me as he cant go back off on his own.

Thanks so much for your help, I do appreciate it.

If he's so tired at bedtime I would look at changing his daytime naps so he's not so exhausted come bedtime.

At 10 months old mine would be napping:

9.00am to 11.00am
1.00pm to 3.00pm
7.30pm to 7.00 am

He just has 2 naps, he's never been a great napper, he used to have 20 mins a time and only on me!

We are now at

Wake at 6am
Nap about 10.30 to 11.30 sometimes a tad longer
Nap about 2.30 to 3.30 again sometimes a tad longer.
Bed by 7pm
One night feed and wakes anything from 2-5 times from 7pm to 6am, it's the middle of the night ones that are obviously the worst.

He was napping at 4.30pm but he just wouldn't go to bed, was playing and messing till 8.30pm so we dropped that one. He doesn't seem to miss it.

I try to go by his lead, so as soon as he looks tired and rubbing eyes it's nap time.

It's just these night wakenings, it's so hard. He actually only woke for his feed at 1am last night which was good. I still didn't sleep though as I'm so used to getting up now!

Is there anything else I can maybe tell you to see if there's anything else I can do?

8.30pm is not a terrible time for a 10 month old to go to bed. It will change as his sleep develops, so it's not like the time of bedtime is set in stone forever more.

While 2-3 hours of daytime sleep would be OK for a baby getting a big chunk of 12 hours sleep at night. But yours is waking in the night so probably needs more daytime sleep than he's getting. I'd add in an extra nap at teatime

This is going to sound terrible, but when he was going to bed at 8.30 by the time I'd showered and sat down with my husband it was time for bed, with getting up in the night I'm shattered. So I as shattered with no down time too!

Right. I'll add that later nap then and see if that stops the night wakenings. Thanks. I'll report back after a few goes. Really appreciate everyone's comments.

Spare a thought for those of us with a baby and also older children. You may be here one day.

My 11 year old might be up until 9.30pm at the weekend.
My 10 year old goes to bed at 8.30
My 6 year old at 7.30

The toddler (20 months old) now goes to bed at 7.30 with her brother but go back to the baby months and there would be night wakings and eroded evening time.

Parenthood just changes the way you think about these kinds of things.

Baby needing a teatime nap and 8.39 bedtime will only be short term. Pretty soon he'll need less daytime sleep and drop it, then his bedtime will go earlier again.

Really no biggie in the grand scheme of things.

All true, and hopefully I'll have all this to come as we are trying or another baby