Hold my hand...we are trying to improve ds's (and our!) sleep...

[Youcantscaremeihavechildren]

DS has slept well in the past but since 6 months things have gone to shit. 4 teeth in 4 weeks, learning to crawl, pull up and now walk in around 3 weeks, plus me going back to work and him starting to go to my mums and a nursery whilst I'm at work, he's had it all going on. Meanwhile he wakes nearly hourly, will only feed to sleep and will feed almost 6-9 times in the night. Quitell often even a feed won't work and he'll tg grown himself about, wake up after 10 mins and will bite whilst feeding. Last night I slept with him on my chest pretty much all night as every time I put him down he woke up. He has a cot attached to our bed as we tried him in a room with dd and he just woke her every time he woke.
I'm off for half term so we've decided to try something now he seems to have all the other stuff settled for the moment, teeth are through etc.
DH is settling him off to sleep for the next few nights after his feed, I'm going to continue to feed him back to sleep until he's settling a little easier for dh (currently he only does this when he absolutely has to and when I can't be here) and then we will try the jay Gordon method, no feeds between 12 and 4 to begin with and gradually extend. Big bottle of formula at 11ish to see if that helps too. He'll get lots of cuddles and comfort but he hates not getting milk. He really hates it.
I really don't want to do it but I just can't cope anymore, the lack of sleep and feeling trapped for up to an hour every evening plus constantly during the night is affecting my mental health. I find myself just crying at might because I desperately need the loo but I know I can't put him down, and I actually dread going to bed as I know it's going to be horrible. I don't expect it to end soon either as dd was a terrible sleeper until she was 4 or 5...
He's been upstairs with DH for 40 mins so far...I'm sitting on my hands and concentrating on putting dd to bed which I've not managed to do for over 4 months. The crying has stopped but he's probably not quite asleep yet.
This will get easier, won't it!?!

Tg grown = throw! Stupid phone..

You poor poor thing. No advice but ds two months younger, sleeps the same (or rather doesn't sleep) and also teacher so know how hard you must be working in the day. We are seeing sleep consultant this week and if any unexpected pearls of wisdom will share but otherwise huge luck and strength your way and yes, it will pass xxxx

What age is he youcant?

How are his naps / nap during the day?

It's so bloody awful having to cope with continued sleep deprivation, you have my sympathies. We're just getting to a better place now, but my god we had some rough spells. I look back on the first three months with horror... How the feck did we survive!

Hope you got Dd off peacefully and at least have managed a cup of tea.

I'm sorry if this is not what you want to hear but if you re-read the first few lines of your post, it seems pretty clear that your baby is desperate for some security and I fear you may make things worse trying to fight it. If he isn't seeing as much of you in the day he is only trying to make this up at night. I too have had babies who feed constantly all night, are you not able to sleep through it? For me that was the benefit of bedsharing, it meant minimal disturbance. If you are sitting up for a whole feed several times a night you need to figure out how to do it laying down! Can't help on the needing a wee front though. If I was bursting I'd just detatch and run and be back feeding within 30 seconds. It won't always be like this.

Oh sorry just realised I didn't say, he's 10.5 months old. Naps are hit and miss but usually manages 1.5 hrs in the day, sometimes these are in 30mins naps, it was a lot worse.
He was asleep in 20mins but a few cries since.
Oh no, awake again..

Ispy I get where you're coming from I really do and I wouldn't do this if I weren't desperate but I'm driving to work some days convinced I'm going to have an accident because my vision is so blurry from lack of sleep. I forgot, actually forgot, how to brake the other day and had to swerve onto a verge to stop the car.
I do feed him lying down but his latch is so lazy that it's painful and he bites too with the new teeth. I'm hoping this will settle as he's used to them but he also wants to be rocked. Feeding isn't even working anymore sone nights.

He's having a feed now, he woke crying after 30 mins asleep as usual, settled with a cuddle but then as soon as I tried to move he's awake again. Problem is dh can't settle him ato night, he just screams so I'm not getting a break at all. I'm also not getting any work done day or night, weekends he just cries for me all day if he can't see me and evenings I get max 2 hrs to get stuff done after kids in bed, lunches made, housework etc and he's just awake every 30 mins to an hour. My work has gone to shit and it's going to get noticed soon enough. Ive been back 6 weeks and I've barely got by.
Hes finally asleep. Now I've got to try and put him down..always interesting!

He's woken 3 times since 6:50...this is mental, cannot keep doing this! I'm meant to be having some time with DH and was in the bath for about 20 mins before i had to get out to see to him, and tonight's going to end up the same as it has for the last 5 months, me sat up feeding him in the dark whilst DH goes to sleep! I am so fucking fed up.

Sympathies OP
I'm going through a very similar thing right now! I did write more but lost my post and I'm too tired now!

Good luck tonight

Thanks. Ive tried putting him down twice and given up, he's asleep on me again.
Apparently poor sleeping as a child is a sign of high intelligence. DD certainly was a shitty sleeper and now at 5 has an 8 yr old reading age so this one will be winning a fecking Nobel prize.

Much, much sympathy. It sounds awful. My DD is almost 8 months and has always been a bad sleeper. There'll be times when things seem to be improving...only for it all to go to rubbish again. Right now she's learning to crawl, teething and dealing with weaning, so it's just awful.

I spy I'm sorry, but that isn't helpful advice. I'm all for the fourth trimester theory, not in favour of CIO and believe that it's normal for a baby to nor sleep through for a long time. But that said, this sleep pattern isn't right and shouldn't be accepted as being so. When the OP is so tired her life is at risk, when she's clearly struggling...sorry, can you explain to me how that's best for the baby?

Oh and as for feeding lying down and barely waking. Obviously works for some but not for me. We can't get a latch, it gives my poor DD wind and it knackers my back. I do co sleep part the night but all feeds have to be sat up.

Sorry to rant. Sure it is well meant but I get SO sick of reading replies along the lines of 'babies will be babies, get over it'. Or that if you're not co sleeping, you're cutting your nose off to spite your face. Please respect that it is not for everyone, and that wanting your baby to be in a separate bed, or even a separate room, does not render you impervious to their comfort!

So sorry OP, totally hijacked your thread there Blame it on the ravings of am exhausted mummy...

Op, sorry if this is a stupid question but does he have a dummy?

THanks purple kind of what I wanted to say but I'm too exhausted to form a sentence! I've been getting really fed up with all the gentle sleep stuff I've read like Sarah ockwell Smith etc as it does seem to say just put up and shut up...which is fine if you never have to go anywhere or do anything! I'd like nothing more than to just go with it, sleep in the day, get early nights etc..I do this sometimes and it helps but it's not enough. I know what you mean about it kind of reaching the worst point and then being ok for a couple of nights, we get 1 night in 15 or so with 2 wakeups and I feel like a new woman! But I've had only 1 night of solid sleep in over a year now and I don't think k I can keep going like this. I mean I will, obviously, as I don't have a choice!

beag no he doesn't. We tried but he just throws it away. His sister woukdnt take one either but she at least sacked sucks her thumb.

Another shitty night. I don't even know how many times I was up but I think I finally slept around 1 and up again for the day at 5.
It's not bloody normal is it?

I really really feel for you

My EBF son was a dreadful sleeper until around 8-9 months when he suddenly started sleeping through (not perfectly and not consistently, but even so!!) We didn't start doing anything differently - we were already following some bits from The No-Cry Sleep Solution and had been trying to encourage good sleeping habits from early on - I think he just decided he was ready. I honestly think sleep is about 15% down to good sleep habits and helping your child learn them, and about 85% sheer bloody luck!! Anyway my point is, sometimes these things just change without you really doing anything, so it's worthclinging to that thought!

My son's aleep has regressed quite a bit this last few weeks (illness, moving house and a very pregnant mummy) so I will likely be going through all this again, but worse than the first time round, when the second baby's here in a weeks time. Happy days!! You're not alone though

Your DH needs to do a few full nights of dealing with baby to get him used to the new reality of not being able to use you to comfort suck all night long. It will be hard, but then it will be better.

I really don't know why we drive ourselves crazy like this. It's normal that baby wants to be attached to mummy all the time, but it's essential that mummy sleeps enough and that baby learns to sleep / resettle.

I'd let your DH choose the method he wants to employ and just get on with it while you sleep in another room.

I spy I'm not sure that's helpful. At her baby's age he could sleep a good chunk without milk - he's not a newborn he's not far off 1. Lots of parents work during the day and their children still sleep at night mostly.
Op has a demanding job and needs to be able to sleep for the core part of the night.
Op- sounds awful. Are you adverse to controlled crying if you are happy your DS is eating enough during the day? It takes some persistence but imo is worth it and there is no evidence of long term harm. It doesn't involve leaving him cryin for hours and you could still do a large formula feed at 11

I know this is probably very un-mumsnetty advice, but have you considered stopping breastfeeding? It just seems like all the responsibility is on you, and your DH is getting more sleep while you sit up all night miserable. I just wonder if it would be better for your mental health to share the burden a bit more. Obviously if baby won't take a bottle then this might not work.

Sorry if this isn't helpful but I know I couldn't cope with what you are going through, so massive hugs as well since I'm being un-mumsnetty anyway!

I'm inclined to go with magpie up to a point. OP you say he has a big bottle of formula before bed so you're clearly not someone who views the stuff as the devil's work...so I was wondering whether you might consider night weaning from breast milk. One big bottle at bedtime then nothing until the time of your choice. And that could be an 11pm dream (formula) feed if you're worried he'll be hungry. Huge bf on waking in the morning.

There's no doubt you'll have ructions at first, but your baby needs to learn that there's no point in waking in the night. Just offer water at all times except the time you have set for a night feed (if any - some babies can and do sleep through at that age; but not all). It'll be easier if your DH does the nights at this stage, because your baby will smell your milk.

It will be very hard for a short time. But sleep training is basically trying to get your baby to do something he doesn't want, so of course he will cry. They do get it incredibly quickly though. A week would probably do it.

Whatever you decide, I hope you find a way

Totally agree with confused.

OPs DS is not a newborn, he is almost a year old. OP is broken and needs to be a functioning, working adult in the day. The current situation is untenable.

Thanks all for the advice and hugs etc.

I think what we are moving towards is stopping feeding at night, I wouldn't want to stop altogether, I fed our dd until 18 m and at around this time she went to just morning and evening for a bit until she was up all night having a party till 3yrs old

DH is going to settle him to bed all this week at the start of the night at least, then the milk bar is closed from midnight till 4, then 11 till 4, then 5, etc over the next few nights.
I'm happier doing it gradually as he isn't quite a year yet and he's had so much going on, plus more upheaval to come as we should be moving house etc. Plus he's got a constantly runny nose again, so another cold! I'm not up for cc or cio anyway but even if I were, there never seems to be a right time! He's either been ill, teething or kerning something new for the last few months, or I've had so much on at work I couldn't face it.

Im hoping he's like yours laquila and I can just wait it out..despite a great start it seems I just don't have children who sleep! Thank God he's the last!

And yes, once he is settling at bedtime for dh without too much fuss then he'll take over when milk is off the menu.
Wish me luck! I'm going to bloody need it.. so is dh!

I feel your pain. At one point my DD was waking every hour through the night and me and DH were at breaking point. Had advice from sleep consultant when she was 9 months. She was eating 3 good meals a day plus bf so we stopped all night feeds. Did controlled crying, going in to check on her at 2 minute intervals. It was hell for the first night but improved quickly and after 3 nights she slept through. I wish we hadn't had to do it but it saved our sanity and she was so much happier once she had a proper sleep.