14 week old reaches meltdown point at sleep time (day and night)

[gingerninja]

My 14 week old DD only manages 30 minute nap during the day before waking. In the morning her mod tends to be OK after 30 mins but at lunchtime she is awful. I've tried getting her up but she's still tired and very grumpy constantly moaning and crying. I've also tried getting her back to sleep with feeding, rocking, patting, anything basically and eventually she does go back (then wakes up, goes to sleep wakes up then goes to sleep for about an hour. It can sometimes take me an hour to get her to sleep for 30 mins. In the evening she screams and screams for probably 40 minutes before finally falling asleep (she tends to stay asleep in the evening) no amount of rocking, patting etc will soothe her (I don't leave her to CIO on her own) We were using a dummy and decided to dump it because it kept popping out and created more problems than it solved. I suspect that it masked this problem before so it's all come as a bit of a shock. Any advice on getting them to sleep (and staying asleep during the day)? I look for signs of tiredness and respond as soon as possible. I've also done the complete opposite and waited until she was so tired but either way we seem to get total meltdown when it comes to sleeping. Any advice?

It's not a long-term solution but does she fall asleep in the pram or car? If so, maybe a couple of days of long pram-naps might sort her out so she is not so tired and then you might find it easier to get her off to sleep. I know when my DS is exhausted he is impossible to settle and it does seem to be cumulative - ie bad naps 2 days in a row results in a shocker of a night.

No it makes no difference she always wakes after 30 mins. It is easier to settle her in her pram so I try and go out in the morning so I'm not battling all the time but if I take her out at lunch she will still only sleep for 30 mins (to the minute)before waking and fussing but not sleeping anymore. I don't know whether it's best to get her up and just do more 30 min naps with her grumpy in between or persevere getting her to sleep longer. Today we had 30 mins sleep screaming on and off (mostly on) for 40 mins then sleep for 2 hours.

When you say you take her out, do you mean walking continuously? My DS also has very short daytime sleep cycles and if we're out I find I have to keep walking (or driving) - if I stop he wakes up.

The other thing that I found a help was settling DS BEFORE he got tired, it sounds mad but it does help sometimes, particularly in the mornings. Try starting to settle her about 1 hour after she wakes up, with the aim of getting her down to sleep about 90 minutes after she woke - it does sometimes work honest! And never let her go longer than 2 hours between naps.

Hi, sorry to sound like I'm negating all of your suggestions but I've tried walking continuously and it doesn't seem to make any difference. This afternoon I laid on the bed with her after one hour of her being awake and she chattered and I talked softly, after 30 mins I drew the curtains and put on a sleep CD (white noise stuff) she fed then got a bit grumpy but settled OK, it's when she wakes up after the first sleep cycle I have a major problem during the day. I think she needs to sleep for longer periods to get a proper quality sleep but she won't go back to sleep despite obviously being tired. I'm not sure whether I should just get her up and start all over again although if I do this, I'm back up to bed about 30 mins later because she is rubbing her eyes, getting cranky and yawning or suffer the screams as I try and soothe her back to sleep.

Hmm... can't think of anything else to suggest as it sounds like you're doing all the right things but I'm sure some other bright spark will be along soon.

Might be worth sketching out a typical day to give other posters ideas - I'm a bit confused from your posts how much sleep she is actually getting overall. My DS never did more than 30-45 minutes at a time but then he didn't seem cranky and tired.

Thanks all the same.

Today went something like this.

Woke gurgling at 6.30
Played until about 7.30
Fed and fell back to sleep
Woke screaming at 8.00 (I think she woke from a deep sleep but once she was up she was OK)
Went out for a walk from 9.50 to 11.45
Slept in buggy from about 10.30 to 11.00
Started to wind down about 12.00
Fell asleep at 12.50
Awoke at 1.20 (screaming)
Went back to sleep at 1.40
Woke at 1.50 (screamed)
Back to sleep at 2.00
Awoke at 2.30 (moaned on an off for 15 mins)
Slept until 4 so thats about 2.25 hours
(started yawning at 4.30!)I will try and get her to have a short nap before bathtime as she's already a bit cranky.

Normally she sleeps 7pm-6.30am waking at 10.30 and 3 for feeds. Difficult to settle at 7 but no problems during the night.

sounds like a normal baby...

how are you reacting to the crankiness / screaming - are you feeling tense?

I have to force myself to relax so I don't give off anxiety (not always possible!) with my 14 wk old boy, especially now he's discovering new pitches of screams, designed to torture!

LOL, Yes I've tried to keep calm but I agree a certain amount of tension is bound to rub off on them especially because DH and I are both tired and a bit niggly with each other at times.

Tonight she settled not bad, took a while but a lot less screaming. It was interesting watching her as I held her because you could almost see her trying to 'de-process' so I think it must be overtiredness coupled with too short a wind down time. I'll be much more careful in future although any tips people have for keeping them asleep are welcomed.

Out of interest sleepfinder, whould you suggest I get her up after she awakes from her first sleep cycle or persevere keeping her asleep during the day (as at lunchtime)?

sorry for delay in answering - I'm not sure I know what you mean about sleep cycles..

do you mean enocouraging a sleepy atmosphere so she nods off again?

I have to admit I let him lead me on the sleep front during the day time - but keep him very busy when he's very alert and awake, which sometimes then conks him out (maybe I'm over stimulating!?!)

I don't worry too much if he's woken up by a noise from a nap because he'll fall asleep in the stroller very quickly outside if he's cranky and didn't want to wake up.

The main thing is I let him put himself to sleep at night - if I interfere / cuddle too much etc he gets quite fed up with me and yells MORE, its kind of like "go away and leave me alone" yelling. If I say "good night" kiss his forehead and leave the room, he grissles for between 1 and 5 mins and then he's out for 12 hours.

I did find a book in the library on sleeping - and it covered everything, from co-sleeping to controlled crying and everything in between. I cant'remember the title but think it was an NCT or NHS book - very helpful if only to reassure me that erratic sleeping and crying / yelling was perfectly normal..!

gingerninja- we have the same thing with ds who is 19 weeks. i also had the same prob with dd who is now 2yrs. with dd i used to keep trying to get her to have a longer nap and would struggle for hrs to get her to sleep, the longest she would sleep was 1hr even now. with ds i cant be bothered to go through all that again so i just make sure he naps every 2hrs for 30 mins. i do find he will sleep for longer if being held. he is still grouchy when he wakes but i calm him down with a quick feed and then hes ok for 2hrs[until late afternoon anyway]

maybe just stop trying so hard to get them to nap for longer and see how you go.

sorry for lack of capitals but 1 handed typing as i need ds to sleep for 1hr so i can do mumsnetting

thanks Kbaby I think I'm getting a bit uptight about naps. I think it's just that I'm so tired I need those times to myself and get really frustrated when she won't sleep because I never get a break. I also want to get into some kind of routine so I can start to live again. I'll learn to relax a bit more then maybe she will!

In total contrast she slept for three hours this morning and then for an hour this afternoon and went to bed at 6.30 with barely a whimper something she's never done. Not sure what rule book she's following but she's keeping me on my toes that's for sure.

The more sleep they get in the day, the better they tend to sleep at night, IME.

Have also found with ds2 (now 16 weeks) that the best bet is to leave him in his cot. To begin with (about 4 weeks ago) that sometimes meant leaving him to cry for 10-15 mins, but he has very quickly learnt to go to sleep quicker than that. Also, in the last couple of weeks I have begun to recognise a cry that means he's knackered, so I'm not attempting to feed him when he wants to sleep!

gingerninja - you sound like me on dd, i was desperate for a rest and was so keen on getting her to nap that i created bad associations by always rocking her back to sleep to get her to nap longer. i used to get so wound up when she woke after 30 mins. now its so much easier, we have a routine its just a 2hrly routine, he feeds for 10 mins, plays for 1 hr, grizzles or moans for 30 mins and then sleeps 30 mins.

i have never been able to leave him cry as he never seems to stop and will just carry on crying for ages.

Get hold of a copy of "The Baby WHisperer". Sorted out dd in a week, especially the 30 mins nap business. FANTASTICALLY HELPFUL BOOK!