Sleep training not worked - any ideas?

[Timtammy]

I'm just wondering if anyone can offer any advice/ideas at all or if this has happened to them.

DS1 was a truly terrible sleeper until 2 1/2 ( now ok ish). I suffer PND and my husband is away a lot. DS2 started out better but then became pretty bad at sleeping.

When he was 8 months (7 or 8 weeks ago I think) I couldn't cope anymore so hired a sleep consultant. She came to the house for 5 nights and helped me sleep train using controlled crying and timed return ( staying in the room). This was a really difficult decision for me as is never wanted to do cc, however I was desperate and I believed it would work. I spent a lot of my savings on her ( stupid I know). Because there was no way I was putting DS2 through that for nothing I stuck to it religiously.

Anyway sleep training worked insofar as we got rid of his dummy and he very easily goes down at the start of the night. However we now have a pattern of one good night where he sleeps right through ( amazing!), 2 ok nights where he wakes a few times in the early part and then again at 5 but can be re settled by giving him a brief pat and then one or two pretty terrible nights where he wakes numerous times and is up for 2-3 hours minimum from 2 am.

I appreciate this is better than some people have ( I know from
DS1) but I just feel at a complete loss and also pretty depressed about the fact that I tried cc in the first place ( and tbh spent so much money, I appreciate that sounds awful but I feel like a mug).

Has anyone else had cc not work for their baby? And does anyone have any other ideas I could try? I did co sleep when he was little but my DH can't sleep like that, plus I have a long standing chronic back and hip injury which makes sleeping in one position/on one side very painful so I don't get much sleep. DS is a really light sleeper so wakes if you move in bed.

Or do I just need to suck it up again as with DS1. My fear of that is that I will end up having a complete breakdown.

Sorry just to be clear I obviously haven't continued cc for 7 weeks - we now just give him a quick pat. Should also add he hates being picked up so it is really difficult to find anyway of settling him on his bad nights. He just seems wide awake.

Two of my three take the crown as Dreadful Sleepers. My middle child slept through from 8 months. The difference is that my two terrible sleepers suffered with teething pain. I really, really believe this is what wakes them at night. My nearly 15 month old still wakes up several times a night. His molars are busting through, so I think this is why he's wakeful. But the chronic fatigue is just soul destroying. I am a shadow of the woman I used to be BUT I know it will pass. I know it won't be forever and somehow this keeps me going.
Sleep solutions have never worked for me. I just sleep when I can where I can. But certainly I live off so little sleep and I feel very unhealthy. Does your little one nap in the day? Can you nap with baby? I find this helps but often I don't because there's so much to do. I'm sorry to offer more sympathy than help.

Thanks horse - my DS1 was a terrible teether too. DS2 still has no teeth yet at 9 1/2 months so it may very well be that.

Unfortunately I can't nap as am back at work PT and then have DS1. DS2 not the worlds greatest napper but I do usually manage to get 2 naps out of him ( although not long ones)

You are right though at least this time I know I will get better one day ( albeit in a couple of years most likely!)

Would a bedside cot thing work for you? IME adjusting my expectations and changing my patterns to make it easier on ME was the best thing to do. Babies are resistant to training but as adults we can move rooms, try and make it so we are close by to the baby and not have to stand up in the night, to go to them - I truly find co sleeping is the best thing ever as it means I barely have to open my eyes and can feed on demand and get back to sleep pronto (plus the baby never really fusses when it knows you are there, well as I said IME!)

It maximised sleep for us all tbh.
There are some lovely next-to-bed open sided cots out there. Then you wouldn't wake him by moving.

Sapele - he did used to sleep on a bedside crib until he outgrew it, so that actually might not be a bad idea ( it's what I did with DS1 but had somehow forgotten). He doesn't feed at night ( actually he refuses all milk pretty much and has done for the last 8 weeks - doctor can find nothing wrong and thinks it is just developmental, which I guess may also cause the sleep problems, but hadn't wanted a night feed for a while before that). He is a very light sleeper though - if you walk past the cot or turn over and make the bed creak he wakes! This was why I moved out of his room (which I didn't want to DS1 was in my room until he was 18 months). I may just try pulling the current cot against the bed first to see if that helps. Thanks both

I cosleep with a similarly light sleeper but I use white noise to cover up the odd cough, turning over in bed etc. I just leave it on all night, in fact I can't sleep without it now.

What does the sleep consultant say?

If you'd have stuck with the dummy then by now your DS would have been able to put his own dummy in at night and so sooth back to sleep independently of you.

I'd give the dummy back.

Plus give more milk in the daytime and be free with night feeds on the bad nights.

Also have the cot next to your bed and keep it there until baby is sleeping reliably, for the sake of your own sleep and sanity.

Thanks - unfortunately he really won't take any milk at night and refuses it in the day apart from first and last thing.

Geneva - Sleep consultant not particularly helpful, just said she had never known it not to work and to keep trying!

Having been through this with DS1 I know it will eventually get better, the thought of another 2 years of bad sleep again is somewhat depressing.

That's terrible of the sleep consultant. Clearly something is amiss and she should be trying to sort it out.

How's his daytime routine?

His daytime routine isn't terrible but his naps aren't brilliant. He wakes at between 6.15 - 6.30, has milk (180mls) and breakfast, first nap between 9.15/9.30 and is 1 hour/1 HR 10, small snack then lunch 12 - 12.15 ( he eats a lot!), next nap roughly 3 hours after he last woke ( so 1.30 ish usually) but only sleeps an hour, big yoghurt at 3 ( as refuses milk), tea at 5/5.15, bath, bottle ( between 120 - 180) bed between 6.30 and 6.45.

He definitely won't go down for naps any earlier than after being awake 3 hours and really won't take more milk. If you offer milk at night he refuses it so am pretty certain this isn't hunger.

Last night he slept through no problems. Tonight he has woken twice already - it's just so random!

He is an exceptionally happy baby, never cries much, really doesn't ever appear tired. I am starting to wonder if he is on the lower end of sleep needs.

Is he drinking enough throughout the day? He might be thirsty.

It wouldn't be unusual for a 6 month old to be needing about 1 litre of fluids per day. Many get a good amount of this from milk and the rest water/squash/fruit juice. If your DS is not having any milk, one would assume he needs to be drinking a lot more water (squash?) than your average child.

My DC2 refused all milk once he started solids at 6 months. He is nearly 10 years old now and still would not drink milk as a drink - he just doesn't like it. So he drank lots of squash and water (still does) and had plenty of dairy in his diet to make up for the lack of milk as a drink.

I think the fact he can sleep some nights but not others points to teeth. If it was habit or poor settling skills it would happen every night?

Do you use calpol on a bad night?

Fate - that's very reassuring to hear of another non drinker! Everyone I have spoken to seem incredulous/ almost doesn't believe me about the milk! He does now drink a lot of water but I will double check as now he is older he probably has drier foods so may not be getting as much liquid from his food.

Munchkin - yes the ability to sleep through some nights puzzles me. As I mentioned he doesn't have any teeth yet ( at 9 1/2 months) so maybe they are all getting ready to come through! We do give calpol but once he is awake that's it - hopefully we might see some teeth soon!

Thanks so much everyone for taking the time to reply