The never ending bedtime!

[GothicRainbow]

My 2.5 year old DS is taking over an hour to fall asleep most nights. This wouldn't be a problem but he likes for either me or DH to sit in with him until he's asleep.

His current routine is:

7am - wake
12pm - up for nap, he can settle himself on his own for this.
I let him have 45mins from whenever he falls asleep. Cut off is 1.30pm never let him sleep later.

He's happy in the afternoons has dinner at 4.30pm.

6pm - tv off, living room curtains closed, quiet play with books and soft toys
6.30pm - bath time
6.45pm - PJ's, milk, teeth.
7.15pm - in bed to snooze

We stopped books in bed as they were too exciting but just recently the actual going to sleep part is getting later and later.

It does seem to be worse when my DH does bedtime, tonight for example DS went to sleep at 8.40pm and my DH has just made it downstairs.

Does anyone have any ideas??

We've tried getting him to fall asleep on his own but he usually cries so hard he throws up (refluxer) - sigh!

Sleep training doesn't not just work for me. It doesn't work for the majority of families across the world and it doesn't work for any mammals.

That is because it isn't necessary. If you want to spend several months of misery trying to train something into a small child who will eventually conform if you did absolutely nothing anyway, well then that is up to you.

The help I am offering the OP is the opportunity to have a good look at to what it is that she is trying to achieve and to consider honestly whether the benefits are truly worth it, and who the benefits are actually for.

I work many evenings, but don't think that is a good reason to enforce sleep on a small child who doesn't need it.

I do get where queen is coming from dc1 can put himself down for a sleep anywhere. He laid down for a nap on a dance floor amongst kids dancing she he was 1yr. He generally decides himself if he needs a nap in tha day. Which works great.

But we have sleep trained. We've taught or lucked out on him learning to get to sleep alone. We cc for two nights around six-months when he stopped being able.to self settle but otherwise has has generally been able.

Dc2 is a whole diff kettle of fish!

I don't actually think its sleep training to encourage a sensible bedtime for a child rather than letting them fall asleep wherever and take them up.

This thread isn't really about sleep training - it's about whether the total amount of sleep the child needs includes a nap or not. If my Dd goes to bed late (after 8:30 ,her usual bedtime is about 7) she wakes up early anyway, this goes on for a few days, she hates napping in the day, then suddenly she has a massive sleep deficit and is vile In her behaviour. It is within her interests to head to bed early most nights. That's not sleep training, it's helping her get enough sleep to function well each day

What time does your xhild need to be up Queen? Do they have anything to do the next day? How do you get your work done? Genuine interest

'I don't actually think its sleep training to encourage a sensible bedtime for a child rather than letting them fall asleep wherever and take them up.'

But what it 'sensible' is culturally loaded and nothing to do with biology, as a biologically 'sensible' bedtime would be when they wanted to sleep.

My kids have to be up at different times depending on the day of the week, but my just turned 3yr old starts nursery at 8:45. Today however we had to take my dd to breakfast club at 7:30, so got him up, got dressed, took dd, came back for breakfast.

If I have to wake him in the morning, chances are he'll go to bed earlier in the evening. He usually takes himself now.

I've never interfered with their natural sleep patterns as they need them, except for ds (my first) when I thought I was doing the right thing by instilling some kind of imposed pattern which I gave up when we went on holiday and realised that when I relax about it, it all sorts itself out.

I just work in the dining room, and the kids occupy themselves. They have to. It has always been thus. They do interrupt now and then. I have to get them stuff sometimes. If I have to concentrate hard I close the door for a short period and they know not to come in.

Queen do you always get enough sleep? Or do you sometimes stay up later than advisable because you are gripped by a film, working, or pottering around enjoying a quiet time? Even though you know you will be wrecked next day? If not, you're very unusual. We all, toddlers included, do things that are not good for us. As adults, we are free to make our own stupid decisions. But our job as parents is to make sure our young kids don't act in self destructive ways. My 7yo would read until gone 10 most nights if we let her. Except that she has to be up by 6.45, so we enforce a lights out. Sometimes she sneaks her light back on, and if we don't notice then she looks and acts like something from the living dead next day. Aside from that, did you know sanctimoniousness is a really hideously unattractive trait?

Op, I feel your pain. Our toddler DD is rarely down before 9. If we try to leave, she gets hysterical. Tbh I think self-settling is developmental as well as learned. Our DS was always good at it, right from being a tiny baby, and still is - he is invariably asleep within 5 minutes of his head hitting the pillow. Our DDs, not so much! But getting to sleep alone does happen, and when they are ready to be nudged into it you will probably know. Dd2 isn't there quite yet, but we are close (I think, I hope!).

I think if you need to wake your child up most mornings before they are teenagers, then they're not getting enough sleep over night.
Agree with Zoe, it is a parents job to help kids get to bed at a time that means they get enough night sleep.

OP - I wonder whether you're giving too much 'wind down' time? That's over an hour in your timeline.

I wonder if the 6-6.30 time shouldn't be TV off them some physical activity/game/playing before you start to wind down. Might burn off that last bit of energy before the wind down time.

Also is it possible that he's hungry? 4.30 seems very early for tea for me if he's not going to bed until past 7.

I rarely have to wake them up. If I do, they take themselves to bed earlier the next night.

I get enough sleep. It averages over the week. Kids aren't allowed to watch films into the evening. If they are tired, they go to bed. I may need to point it out to them. Sometimes I suggest they are too tired for a book this evening.

It really isn't a problem. They are all doing brilliantly at school.

The only aspect that IS a problem is babysitting. If we book a babysitter they expect to watch Downtown Abbey at 9, not chat to my 6yr old about knitting. They really don't need much in the way of childcare at that time of night but babysitters seem to feel obliged to interact if they are awake.

I would have a later bedtime and wind down.

6pm TV off with sleep by 7pm is optImistic

If he's not sleeping until 8.30pm I would just take him up later in the first place

So 5pm latest TV off. 6pm dinner. Gap in between quiet relaxing playing like building/ puzzles/ reading. 7.30pm bath/ pjs. In bed for 8pm story and sleep.

I agree about the slightly later tea and bed if you are keeping the nap. When DS was that age and still napping his tea was 5.30 and bed asleep more like 7.45. I'd also maybe leave the curtains open and let him have quiet play after tea downstairs, then up for bath and pjs and with a couple of books in bedroom with lower lights. Hopefully he will be more tired then, plus feel less rushed to his bed. I don't know if you or DH work but I always found my DS needed enough time to see me after work - a slightly later bedtime gave him that and he ultimately was asleep earlier than an earlier bed and him not going to sleep.

Tea? Not before bed especially. Just think of the caffeine!!

Queen - it was always dinner and tea where I'm from! My DS actually corrected me on that today as well!