pls comment on this sleep routine

[fishie]

ds is 18 months and has never been much of a sleeper. lately he has been going to sleep later and later in the evening but still gets up early. seldom wakes during the night. all times approximate, this is not a rigid schedule but a rough idea

6am wake
12.30 - 2 nap (1.5 hrs with me 3 days, 2.5 hrs with childminder 4 days she wears him out more
7.30pm bath / stories / bedtime
9pm sleep

dp does the putting to bed, they are upstairs in the bedroom, dimmed lights etc. ds is just not at all tired before 9pm, sometimes it is nearly 9.30 before he goes to sleep. i wonder whether there is an earlier sleepy period we are missing and he is overtired, but am scared he'll be up at 4am. he has rarely slept for longer than 10 hours. cannot drop afternoon nap yet he does need it. we'd rather not do any sort of cc. advice welcome.

think 9 is a bit late for bed at that age - at 18 months dda and dd2 had bath at 630 and in bed by 7, 730 at the latest and would be up at 7ish
nap in afternoon for 2 hours, usually 1 -3 or 2 - 4
hth

thanks hana, yes that is what i am concerned about, noone else i know does this! but he is waking after 9 hours, so if we managed to get him to sleep at 7.30 he might get up at 4.30am

Does he seem happy on that amount of sleep? Some children just don't need as much sleep as others.

He might get up at the same time though...? My friend's ds2 has always woken at 5.30am no matter whether he goes to bed at 6pm or 9pm. She tried pushing his bedtime back for ages but it didn't help so in the end she decided she might as well enjoy an evening to herself and now he goes to bed at 7.30pm with his older brother (who has never been such an early riser).

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he may be tired earlier though,but not show it iyswim? my ds can still be running around at bed time, but as soon as he actually gets into bed he goes to sleep. Also, he may wake at 6:30 AM regardless of what time he goes to sleep. Tbh I would cut his nap by say, half an hour to start with and bath at 6:30 with a view to being in bed by 7:30. If he has a specific routine you can alter the time without him knowing - he's as yet too young that bath time has happened an hour earlier.

hth

thank you all. he has had bath and we're now waiting for dp to come home. i think we'll try a 7.30 bedtime tonight, will let you know what happens...

Are you actually putting him to bed but he is then crying to get up, or are you not putting him to bed in the first place because he doesn't seem tired? Do you actually put him in his bed, say goodnight and close the door?
To my mind 12:30 seems a bit late for an 18 month old to start the nap. At 18 months, DD was in her bed by 11:30, with 12 being the very latest. Could you not bring his nap forward a little?
Also - my DD (20 months) hardly ever seems tired before bed, often running around like a maniac after her bath at 6:00pm, but because she is so used to her bedtime routine, she never complains about going to bed between 6:30 and 7:00pm.

jambot, because dp was doing it was a combination of waiting till ds tired, and getting him out when he cried. of course i am also responsible for letting this happen as relieved not to have to do it myself. difficult to move nap to morning as it fits well with childminder's son routine.

anyway, dp late home so i have put ds to bed and o miracle he asleep at 7.30 on the dot. i fear the wakening though....

Fishie, I would suggest that you need to make the bedtime routine very fixed, so that he knows that this is the time he goes to bed and goes to sleep. If he plays up, I would do a form of controlled crying - go in to the dark room, tuck him in and tell him it's time for sleeping and leave, leave him for a few minutes if he's protesting, go back in and do the same until he gets the message. If you and dp are consistent, you'll be amazed how he will adapt. Funnily enough it's often the men who are softies about bedtime and allow the kids huge leeway. Putting him to bed at a reasonable time can only benefit your DS, and you and DP get to spend some time together alone, which is what I really enjoy.
DD would stay up till 10pm if I allowed her, as she wants in on the action, but eventhough she sometimes has a moan, especially if we have people, I never allow her to stay up later than 7. She's always asleep within 10 to 15 minutes.
How did it go last night?

aaarg he woke up at 3.45am and we couldn't get him back to sleep till 4.30, then up at 6.30. i am very very unpopular with dp, but insist we try again tonight.

at worst he can go to bed at 8.30 and we'll have to get up at 6. jambot you are dead right, this two hour bedtime stuff must stop.

thats a very long sleep in the afternoon! my dd is 21 months and since 17 months or so often won't nap at all during the day, when she does it's only for an hour max, often less. she goes to bed happily at 7.30 and sleeps til 8.30/9am most mornings.

i'd guess he's getting to much of his daily requirement during the day and therefore doesn't need it at night.

have you tried shortening the nap? and definitely put him to bed earlier, some people find that if they put them down earlier they actually sleep longer (not true for my dd but you never know til you try!)

whoops ust read through, poor you.

i'd suggest when he wakes at ungodly hours like that just walk in, tuck him in and say 'no ds, its nighttime' and just walk out, my dd only ever cried for 10 mins and once she settled i snuck back in to tuck her in, after a few days she didn't wake at night anymore, or more acurately, she only cries now if somethings wrong, not to get up.

I disagree that two hours in the afternoon is too long at 18 months. Both mine needed that. However maybe you should ask the CM to stick to 1.5 hours and see if that helps. Then be definite on bedtime - for both DS and DD from 12 months or so it took half hour to do bath, pjs, teeth and story and they would both be in bed by 7.30. So maybe stick to that at the current time and then gradually bring it forward as someone suggested.

thank you. interestingly, we've been out a lot yesterday and today, so nap has been about half an hour max both days, this is partly why i was keen to do something right now. ds is running about flat out all day with cm, def needs a kip there.

have told dp that if he can get ds to sleep by 8 then i will deal with pre-dawn wakings. he has a deadline of 8.20 or is his problem

At 20 months, DD still does 2 - 3 hours per day nap, plus sleeps 6:30 to 6:30 so I think it really depends on each child how much sleep they need.