Will a later bedtime mean better naps?

[TS123]

My DS is 12 months old and lately will only take one nap for 1 1/2hours, and IMO spends most of his day in an exhausted and wired state. Nothing I do will make him nap longer or more often. So, I've been debating whether to put him to bed later in the hopes that less sleep at night will mean more sleep in the day (according to Ferber anyway). Currently I put him to bed anywhere between 6:30pm and 7pm (usually because he seems quite tired by then and will go off easily) and sleeps until 5:30 or 6am. According to Ferber, when a child sleeps this much at night he will be incapable of more daytime sleep. I'm more interested in what experienced mums on mumsnet have to say than what a "sleep expert" tells me. So please -- any advice?

My ds is 13 months and will only sleep about 1.5 hours during the day now. He also sleeps an hour longer in the night than your ds so that throws MrFerbers theory out of the window. Besides babies are all different,some need moresleep than othersjust like adults.

There is another theory that putting them to bed earlier helps them sleep later. No idea how or why it works but moving ds'sbedtime earlier by half an hour now has him sleeping later in the mornings.

Forgot to add

and he still takes1.5 hours in the day regardless of what he was getting at night

My ds was having 2.5hrs in the day up to about 18mths and still slept 7pm-7am - all babies are different. What I would say is that Iw ould advise bringing forward his bedtime rather than making it later as tiredness tends to lead to poorer sleep as crazy as that sounds. I notice when mine isn't sleeping properly over a few days, by putting him to bed earlier for a few days, he catches up on what he;s missed and then settles back down.

I've also read that theory that an earlier bedtime helps them sleep better. But I've always put him to bed quite early and he's never really napped much more than 1 1/2 or 2 hours total during the day despite looking like he needs more. That is why I've been wondering -- how much can I really expect him to sleep? Maybe his early bedtime is really cause and not effect?

I don't think you're going to get an improvement by putting him to bed later. If you read Dr Marc Weissbluth's book, 'Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child', he says that late bedtimes nearly always backfire. If you string him out at night, you're going to put him to bed in a very tired state which promotes adrenalin levels, which can make it hard to settle them for the night and effect the quality of his nightime sleep, leaving you even worse off - poor night sleep AND limited daytime naps.
What time is he going down for his nap? Perhaps you could push him a little there. At 12 months, DD was going down at about 11:30 latest. She slept an average of 2 hours, but sometimes 3. Would be in bed at 6:30. Slept through until about 6:30 am.
I also found that if DD looked tired in the afternoon but wouldn't nap again, I would just put her in her cot with a few soft toys and let her have a bit of 'quiet time' for 20 to 30 minutes so that she had some time away from lots of stimulus and physical activity.

Thanks Jambot. True to your word, I stretched him until 7pm last night and he was up and hysterical at 4:55am, wouldn't go back down and is now barely holding it together at 7am. I am convinced that he needs a 6-6:30pm bedtime but I'm met with lots of resistence from DH who doesn't think DS will ever learn to sleep past 5:30am unless we start putting him to bed later at night. I'm convinced that DS will always wake us at 5:30am no matter when he goes to bed. This debate I think has led me to doubt myself and be inconsistent or at least go against my instincts. To make things worse, my MIL looks after DS two days per week and finds him to be "perfectly fine" during the day, napping very well. I don't see the same baby. This leads DH to conclude that I overinterpret DS's fatigue, and blow it out of proportion. But he isn't home to see the tantrums, and recently, the failure to eat meals because he's so tired. MIL thinks he's just a picky eater but he was not like this before this transition to one nap happened. How normal is it for kids to have so much trouble with nap transitions?

TS - Do your self a favour and get Marc Weissbluths's book. He shows you the science behind his sleep strategies and gives some very good case studies that you'll probably identify with. Ask DH to humour you and let you try and early bedtime to see what happens. Sometimes DD was even in bed by 5:45 when she was really tired and never woke any earlier. Even now at 20 months, she's still in bed by 6:00pm some nights.