Bedtime is torture every single night

[eversomuch]

Bathtime starts around 6:30pm for my 4yo & 2 1/2yo. Storytime & cuddles around 7pm. Then the truly torturous 1 -1 1/2 hours of trying to get them to settle down.

DS2 is in a toddler bed since last week & gets up 6 or 7 times while we try to settle him, saying he has to go to the toilet. Usually he'll wee once or twice (small ones) & most nights does a poo too. He's not fully potty trained yet, so we take him seriously when he says he has to go, but it is partly a game to him too, and becomes really infuriating as the evening progresses. (He's never been a sleeper, either, so DH and I are chronically sleep deprived).

DC1 is easier to get to settle, but can be very clingy, so wants one of us there until he drifts off, though we usually leave by 8pm and just promise to check in again before we go to bed.

We emerge from the bedtime routine feeling we've been through war.

They sleep in separate rooms & we've thought of putting them together to see if it helps, but DC1 doesn't want to share a room bc DS2 wakes / screams in the night or very early.

Any ideas how we can re-engineer this process so it's not taking 1.5 hours, and leaving me feeling like the meanest, grumpiest person on the planet?

Looking into sleep trainers/consultants but can't schedule anything until next month.

And it's not just bedtime ... DS2 then often wakes at least once in the night, then up around 5am to start the day. Two and half years of this and he is killing us.

For DS2 I would consider pyjama pants for night time. This would remove the any gaming regarding toileting at night.

Regarding sitting with your 4yo until he falls asleep, that's no good long term. What about when he can start going to school friends for sleepovers and the like? I'd be reducing this down to a more normal story, kiss nan night and leave. Procrastination isn't your friend.

The toddler, what about a warning that if any more messing about he's back in the cot? "Big boys in big boy beds stay in their bed at bedtime" kind of thing.

How would they react to rewarding - sticker chart and bribery if specific things happen at bedtime.

We have 5 children and all of them have settled better if someone sits with them until they fall asleep. The longest it takes is 20 mins and usually a lot less. It reassures them that it's ok to need company at bedtime. Without it the whole bedtime thing would have taken forever. They have never had a problem with sleepovers and scout camps. Two of them wake early (5.30-6am) and still do at 8 and 12) and the others sleep until 7-8ish. You can't do much about that in my experience. They have learnt to let the others sleep.
The sitting with them usually only lasts until they are about 7-8 and then they will happily have a kiss and night night and go to sleep on their own.
Give them what they need and enjoy them.

DS1 (3.5yo) has had major sleep issues - obstructive sleep apnoea (now sorted), nightmares, night terrors, sleep walking, waking 20+ times a night due to the apnoea. We had to sit and hold his hand until he was in a deep sleep because he was too frightened to go to sleep on his own.

We tried it all and the consultant eventually have us melatonin to get him drowsier at bedtime so that we could work towards leaving the room before he fell asleep and get him falling asleep on his own. We did it gradually, just saying we'd go to the toilet and be right back. Then lengthening the time we spent out of the room until one night he went to sleep alone. He's off the melatonin now and is quite happy for us to leave his room so he can settle down to sleep. Wen he wakes at night he's not screaming in terror anymore (unless he's had nightmares), and will just come to our room so we can take him back to bed for a cuddle and leave him to go back to sleep.

We also use sticker charts and started off with a sticker every time he didn't make a fuss when we left the room. Then a sticker each night he went asleep on his own. Now he gets a sticker for each night he sleeps through/stays in his own bed all night. When he has enough stickers he gets a small present. It's been helpful to keep him motivated to try and keep him in his bed.

We sat at the top of the stairs singing or just being their for 20- 30mins or so for years. That was a big improvement to having to be in the room. We did the withdrawl gradually technique. However it does pass - now it is a quick story and light on for 5 mins then sleep. No fuss or bother. Find what works for your family and go with it - you can at least Mn from the top of the stairs

My DD has a potty in her bedroom, she uses toilet most of the time but if she starts with the 'I need a wee' moan (even if she's already been and actually just wants to come out of her bedroom) then I put her on the potty, there's no reward or fun in running about so she now only asks when she actually needs to go

I feel exactly the same after bedtime routine if that helps and usually it's very straightforward! Still hard work!

My boys are 8 and 9 and at that age, were in the same room. We always stayed with them to sing songs quietly until they were pretty drowsy or asleep... we are complete softies! Lots of kisses and cuddles, made up stories, gentle singing. Took about 10 to 15 minutes.

(Well they go to bed easily and then the fun starts with DS waking up to 6 times a night...sob sob)

Can you have a rule of 'once the night nappy is on, it's not coming off until morning' with DS2 (if you're still using a night nappy)? He shouldn't need several wees in the space of an hour.

Stair gate on his room so he can see you, hear you, but has to stay in his room? Play with him a lot in his room so that it's a place he wants to stay in, not just somewhere he randomly sleeps?

Do they get any TV in the hour or two before bed? If so - knock that on the head and run around the garden with them instead or do rough and tumble play with them indoors. Make sure it's intense mum/dad time as your DS2 may still be feeling too insecure away from you to settle and sleep well, hence the repeated attention seeking at bedtime. Give him that time he craves beforehand and he may start to feel more confident alone.

DS1 sounds OK, TBF. 3yo DS1 likes one of us to be with him until he falls asleep. If the GPs are putting him to bed, he actually orders them from the room when he's bored of stories and goes to sleep just fine by himself.