Have I left it too late to sleep train 2YO DS?

[widdle]

I was all for going down the route of whatever works/wait it out - they get there in the end in terms of sleep but my DS is on the verge of breaking me and DH.

He has never been a good sleeper but we have had periods of relative calm - a couple of weeks of sleeping through here and there and I thought it was just going to continue getting better. BUT it is getting worse.

The main problem is that DS won't self settle - he has to be cuddled to sleep. This was fine when it was just taking half an hour and I could leave his room at 7:30 but now it is taking an hour or more and I don't get out until 9 (on a good night). He has also started to resist the cuddling and I find it hard to get him to lie with me without protest.

Last night was a complete disaster - every time I put him in his cot, he woke up and stood up (he also tries to get out of the cot). I had to leave the room a couple of times just to calm down and there was a full on screaming fit from DS. He eventually went to sleep at 10:30 and was up again at 5am.

He also tends to wake in the night and I then just lie with him as he won't go back in the cot.

I'm at the end of my tether, it is completely ruining my relationship with DH (we never see each other) and, although I would like another baby I can't see it happening any time soon.

So we are planning to sleep train - this is the plan:

Bedtime routine - last story in the cot, say goodnight and leave
Then return every 1 min, then 2 mins then 3 mins (with 3 mins being the max)

I am concerned that he is going to try and get out of his cot though. I don't want to take the sides off because his mattress is still quite high off the floor. But if I go in every time he tries to get out I would never leave.

PLEASE HELP!! (And if you got to the end of this epic then hats off to you!)

Hello, much sympathy to you. Both my DDs have been (and often still are) crap sleepers. I can also sympathise with spending hours trying to get them to sleep - DD1 was the same.

Have you read the No Cry Sleep Solution? I found it very helpful (though not an "instant cure" - although I am extremely sceptical about those!

I used gradual retreat methods rather controlled crying/return and check methods as I felt it was gentler on both of us.

So for example, I would do bedtime routine, put her in the cot and sit and hold her hand till she fell asleep. When she got upset, I would use the same words over and over (shh, sleep time now, go to sleep, shh etc). It would take an hour or two to begin with. Once the time taken came down to 20 minutes or so, I stopped holding her hand but sat by the cot. Then moved a bit further away and so and so on. You might find it easier if you are not worrying about him climbing out of his cot if you are there with him. If he can climb out already, you might want to think about another option such as moving him to a bed with sides or putting the mattress on the floor. You may well want to put a stairgate on his door in that case! DD has had one on her door since 10 months as we can't put one across our stairs.

I also found talking books very helpful. DD still has either stories or music on every night when she goes to bed (she is now 3 and excellent at bedtime).

Other posters have had success with sleep consultants but I haven't personally used one. If you read the long running thread "misery loves company", several posters are using/have used Ann Cairns but her waiting list is usually closed! I think she recently recommended someone else however.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Thanks for your reply Chocolate (great user name BTW!)

Arrrrghhh!! I'm already dithering in my resolve. DH wants to do the CC method but very frequent checks as he thinks this will work quicker and be kinder in the long run (ie a short sharp shock rather than having a prolonged struggle every night). I'm more in favour of gradual retreat although I do worry that I'm not going to have the patience to keep calm.

DS is being rather (ahem) challenging at the moment - typical toddler behaviour and he simply will not lie down. I'm afraid that having me in the room will just be an added incentive for him to stay upright. If I'm not there he might get bored earlier and eventually lie down on his own.

The audio books idea is good but did these have to run all night?

Right - change of plan. Maybe what I should do is first of all do back rubs or hold hands in cot (if he will lie down and let me), then gradually stop that contact and just be in the room, then just outside the room (actually how does this work - do you shut the door? Isn't this going to end up being CC anyway?)

Oh god!!! My friends all seem to have had placid babies that just got it! DS is a law unto himself. I feel so lost. When he woke this morning at 5am I spent half an hour lying with him trying to get him back to sleep then ended up bursting into tears - luckily he didn't seem too phased by that

DD1 was younger the first time (we had regressions every time she was ill or teething or we were away...). If she was messing around I used to completely ignore her, even lie on the floor and pretend to be asleep some of the time. She would go through phases of upset (so comfort), cross, trying to attract my attention and eventually would get so bored she'd go to sleep!

The only good thing with the regressions is that I would start near the end of the retreat training so just inside the door or even just outside (always with it open though)

I started with the stories just for an hour or so but then left them on quietly all night and it helped improve her sleep overall. Didn't stop her waking but wakings lessened and she would sometimes settle more easily.

It really isn't easy and takes a lot of patience but I'm glad I did it this way.

DD2 was easier to teach to self settle at bedtime as I did exactly the same but started much younger!

Hope tonight has goneOK for you

Thanks Chocolate We actually postponed the training yesterday because DS was quite upset (not surprising after so little sleep) and seemed to have an upset stomach.

He seems better today so I'm going to give it a go (armed with my trusty Kindle paperlight )

Watching with interest as I am in exactly the same boat. 2.3yr DS who needs me next to him to fall asleep, then wakes up after an hour, usually when I'm trying to put other DS to bed. I've given up on eating dinner now ! He ends up in our bed every night, but once he is in there he sleeps like a log. I know what needs to be done but I'm not sure I can face implementing it. He is in a bed now and so can get out.....

I think that's it MrsBradleyCooper I can't face the thought of it but it's getting to the point where I can't get out of his room until at least 9pm then I just go straight to bed because he will be up at some point during the night. I have absolutely no social life in the evenings anymore!

So I'm now at the point where I might as well try it because it surely can't get any worse!

I completely agree with you. I find that I can't relax in the evenings even if I do manage to get some time to myself, because I'm constantly on edge, knowing he could wake at any moment. My husband and I daren't go out anywhere together in the evenings because I couldn't put all this on a babysitter - they'd end up in my bed cuddled up to him
I have actually tried the gradual retreat before, but have reverted back to the lying beside him before I'd got very far with it. Usually due to illness or the need or him to get to sleep quickly. He's currently lying next to me chattering away and doesn't look like he's going to fall asleep any time soon!

Well the last three days have been really small baby steps just to try and get us back to DS being happy being cuddled to sleep!!

I tried to put him in his cot the first night and he just refused to lie down, wanting to run his cars across the top of the cot, dropping them and turning that into a game. When I didn't engage he then start crying to be picked up and tried getting out of the cot. So then I picked him up and he still refused to lie down with me, getting really upset and wanting to carry on playing.

So the last couple of nights I've made slight tweaks to the routine to try and get him in a sleepy mood. Everything is a struggle from getting him out of the bath, into nappy and pj's and getting him into the room. By that time it's already 8pm and he's still isn't sleeping until gone 9pm and getting up at 5am. So he's getting only 8 hours at night and is constantly tired. I just don't know how I'm going to be able to get him to go in the cot happily.

My next plan is to make his cot more inviting so will be taking off the cot side this week and getting some nice, interesting new bedding to try and persuade him to like his big boy bed. Also going to try and start the bed time routine earlier with the goal of getting him to sleep by 8pm.

I feel like I'm having to try so hard just to stay in the same spot!! Once he lies down he is asleep in 5 mins so obviously exhausted.

How are things at your end MrsBradleyCooper?