DD awake until 10pm ..... help, please

[blessedenough]

We have always had a very good, well established bedtime routine and my DD (3.5) was a very good sleeper .... until about 4 months ago.

Now she goes to bed at 7pm and will often still be awake at 10pm singing away to herself. In the beginning a few months ago we were happy for her to play in her room but no leaving it and she would often be asleep within the hour. Now however its a battle. She needs a wee, a poo, mummy i need you, there are monsters etc. At Nanny and grandads she sleeps like a log - allegedly.

About 2 months ago i put DS (12mo) into his own room so she wouldnt have an audience anymore and so he could get some sleep. We have tried everything we can think of, removing toys, longer stories, lots of quiet time before bed, shouting, ignoring her etc

I have asked her what she is scared of, we have discussed that her monkey stickers look after her and that mummy and daddy are here - i dont think she is scared but it gets the reaction she is looking for.

Then after she has been asleep a few hrs she gets night terrors and is screaming in her sleep.

Nothing has changed, that i can see and i am my wits end - any advice oh wise MN-ers... please.

I assume she has a night light and the door open when she goes to bed?

Hi yes, we leave door ajar and hall light on. She also usually opens curtains and says its not bedtime its morning as its light. She also has a lamp in her room which she switches on when she wants to look at books etc.

I was just going to say that. Ds1 was a pain to get to sleep for a while, kept getting up for random things and nightmares etc, but then we started leaving his door open with a light on in the hall and he's much better. It works on trust though. If he starts getting up for silly reasons (eg I need a wee, I need a drink, I've lost x etc) then the light will be turned off until we go to bed.

Did you see the TV programme this evening about the white noise app which helps children get off to sleep .it was amazing that a little boy who would stay up all night suddenly went straight to sleep at 7pm when the mum used a white noise app.

I wouldn't be allowing her to either open curtains or switch on additional lights - you need to make her room a tranquil place ready for sleep. We use the main overhead light but dimmed right down on the dimmer switch. If not that then a night light on all night would be a better idea.

I have no experience of night terrors so if that is it I don't know what to suggest.

If you think she is trying it on though, then I would do a version of rapid return. This basically means not letting her get out of bed for any reason. Every time she does, you take her back to bed immediately and without lingering

X post.

No advice but shamelessly lurking as i could have written this post about dd 2 2.11 years.
She keeps her sister awake even if in seperate rooms and screams,shouts and cries from 7.30 til 10.
Tonight i must have gone up about 15 times.

oh and ex loves to inform me how she goes to sleep within 15 mins at his

I'm assuming she doesn't nap anymore, so it's not that she needs to drop a nap? Or wake up earlier?

I do think that about the age of 4 my dcs stayed up later (I have 4dcs). Dc3 has recently turned 5 and starting reception really wore her out again. She would take herself to bed somedays. It's settled down a but more now, but maybe she needs to do more during the day?

My 4 yr old is still awake. He has always needed less sleep than 'the books' suggest. After about 9 he has to amuse himself, but we gave up fighting about it. He puts himself to sleep happily after a fair amount of fucking around, but as long as he's not bothering anyone I'm not sure it's worth stressing about. He is particularly late tonight, though...

I might have to try a later bedtime - she does seem tired at bedtime and will often say she is tired at dinner time. She hasnt slept in the afternoons for along time now, i did think a full day at nursery would make her tired so she would go to sleep at 7pm but no!

She will have a couple of days where she is very difficult to get to sleep and will sleep as late as allowed - 7.30am. Then after a couple of days she will be asleep by 8pm as the late nights have caught up with her.

I keep thinking its a phase but its a bloody long one!

Thanks for everyones advice - i will just keep on persevering. We are moving house in the next couple of months so i imagine that will open a new hosts of sleep related issues.