10 month old - terrible sleeper help!

[PuppyMummy]

Ds is 10.5 months BF and always been a bad sleeper. doesn't nap unless in car or pram (except at nursery!)

He has always fed to sleep until recently so we are working on teaching him to self settle.

I saw the hv recently and decided to try and reduce night feeds as he was waking 3-5 times to be fed and comfort suck.

So far we are down to him self settling with some patting and singing when he goes down at 6.30. he doesn't cry and takes about 15/20 mins.

He wakes sometimes at 10 and can be sush and patted back to sleep.

He then wakes between 11.30 and 1.30 (every day different) and we sush pat him back to sleep but he wakes within 20 mins. after 2 or 3 wakings I feed him as he can be awake for up to 3 hrs (we tried not feeding him and he won!)

he then wakes at 5 and cries until he has his 'breakfast' feed at 6.15 ish. he won't be resettled.

We do a mix of sush patting and controlled crying if needed.

anyone got any advice or suggestions? hv assured me he isnt hungry and doesn't need any milk in the night but I can't manage on sleep if he has been up for 3 hrs hence feeding him.
Do I need to try so he learns to settle with no feeds?

sorry thats got a bit long and rambly!

What about a comfort toy or muslin to suck on? Would he suck his fingers/thumb?

He clearly finds sucking soothing and relaxing. Too late to introduce a dummy but some other comforter would be helpful.

short term pain long term gain as far as night weaning is concerned. you might have to cope with a few nights of difficult crying (which is hell when you're exhausted yourself but so necessary to feel like a human again!!) but in the long run it's worth it - e.g. drop one night feed a week; be prepared for screaming for a few hours but after a few days he will get the message and sleep for longer until he goes through the whole night.

Also what about getting him down to sleep a bit later in the evening - it might help him sleep better when he is down as maybe he is not tired enough. That or he is overtired and that could be causing the extra waking.

The fact that he naps at nursery also seems to say something! Sounds like he is playing up a bit with you because he knows he can. At nursery they are less likely to take it if he's being fussy about sleep. So maybe you need to be a bit stricter.

we tried him with a dummy when he was littler, he wouldn't have it! he has bears in his cot and a small bunny which he used to suck the ears. he doesn't now tho.

Is it just going to be a matter of putting up with the crying until he gets it?

Argh!! its putting me off having a second incase I get 2 terrible sleepers!!

I got two terrible sleepers, it is hard but eldest who is 6yo now sleeps 12 - 13 hrs and has done since he was 3yo. Youngest is 12mo, still wakes about 2 - 3 times but getting better. They are worth it (large age gap purely due to the bad sleep of eldest child....)

puppy - it is just a matter of putting up with the crying until he gets it. But it won't take long, trust me (a few days to a week max per feed you drop).

It sounds like he's accustomed to the feeds at that time so it's just a case of getting his "hunger/comfort feed" schedule back on track so he's not used to it anymore. I promise you the short term pain of crying will be worth it. Drop a feed every week or two until he goes through the night. Then you will feel human again.

In the meantime you could improvise when he cries for feeds maybe by pushing him in a buggy in a dark room with some lullaby music to get him back to sleep (if it's poss). Otherwise just grin and bear it; it will be worth it even though it's hellish at the time.

Also you're not hurting him by dropping a feed - it's just a learning thing. He won't starve! But if you don't night wean you might go mad (I nearly did) with extended sleep deprivation!

Trust me, a few days after you drop each feed he will get the message

thanks for the advice.

he is getting quite good at settling himself to sleep, takes 15-20mins but usually no crying.
he is waking usually only once so I feed him. if he wakes before 12.30am he is easily settled

we just need to work on the 5am waking still! cc isn't working neither is sitting with him and patting him.

we are trying a later bedtime to c if that works!

i read somewhere recently that waking them (rousing them - e.g give them a hug in their half comatose state) a bit (hug, sit them up, then lie them down again) - just rousing, not full waking them, doing this when you go to bed yourself breaks their sleep cycle and they will stay asleep through the night.

Maybe that's worth a try!

just wanted to update that we continued with the sush patting and cc and got a night where he woke but was settled without me feeding him, following that we have just had 2 nights of him sleeping through until 6am!

amazing! we are doing a slightly later bedtime which seems to have helped!

he now stirs but seems to be able to 2 settle himself.