Weeping here, having a horrible time whilst sleep-training...

[MissK16]

I don't know if you can call "sleep training" what I've just done.

Here is how I happened to be where I am now. My baby is almost 9 month old. All his life he's been breastfed to sleep. I know it's wrong to breastfeed babies to sleep, but it wasn't exactly my choice - I had absolutely no help with looking after my baby for all this time, I'm only 20 years old, my HV is a horrible worker (she never turns up when she said she would, then she can say she knocked on the door, but no one answered, even though I was home all day waiting for her and listening up to the door; I won't exaggerate if I say my HV is a liar who doesn't want to do her job), after childbirth I had a few complications and couldn't walk for 2.5 months after giving birth, I remember myself starving all day because I couldn't walk downstairs and get food, waiting for my partner to come back from work...So because I didn't exactly know what I was doing, and because it was the most comfortable thing to do at the time, I got my son used to falling asleep while nursing.
And it was fine for maybe the first 8 months, then it's become a nightmare. LO wakes up all night, like every hour to be breastfed (we co-sleep), then falls asleep being breastfed. I can only try and finish feeding when he's really deep asleep and won't feel me leaving. It's a nightmare. All night I have to prop myself on my elbow with my neck and arms hurting feeding LO. I get almost no sleep at all. My neck hurts and now that my baby's got 2 teeth he sometimes bites me and it hurts a lot, for ages.
I heard about other mums leaving their babies to cry themselves to sleep, but I thought it was cruel to the babies, also heard it makes them become insecure adults. So I never did it. But then last night all I managed to get was 1 hour of light sleep, and I really messed my neck up. So today I thought I'd try to make LO fall asleep on his own in the day. At first I was sitting with him, singing and trying to offer him a dummy, but then realised he thought I was entertaining him and wasn't going to fall asleep. So I walked out of the room... He cried and cried, screamed "mama"...My heart was squeezed every second of his desperate crying, in 5 minutes I went back to his room to see my baby smiling at me desperately and saying "mama mama mama". I'm crying myself now, I just don't know what to do with him. He thought I abandoned him, he thought I wasn't coming back...but I only wanted him to fall asleep.
Also, LO almost doesn't eat any food, he simply isn't intrested in it at 9 months! Or maybe he just isn't hungry in the day because he breastfeeds all night long...
I'm sorry for the message being so long, I'm just really desperate, I'd be so grateful for an advice. How do your babies fall asleep? How did you train them to? Do you know what I could do to help my son fall asleep on his own?
Thank you for reading and responding)

You haven't done anything wrong, we are all just doing our best.

I think starting to help your baby self-settle in the daytime is good as you will both be less tired than at night time.

What I would do is make sure your baby has a good feed, is changed and clean and happy, then pop him down in his cot for a nap. I would make sure the room is dark and quiet.

Pat his chest and say go to sleep now love Mama will be just downstairs. Then leave the room.
He will probably cry.
I would time 90 seconds then go in and say it's ok I'm here but it's sleepy time now so shush darling. More patting but do not pick up.
More crying...wait 3 mins then repeat.

I would go to 5 and 10 mins max.

Worst thing you can do is have all the crying and going in and out then say oh feck this, pick the baby up and cuddle or feed him to sleep. That wil just teach him that he has to cry a lot to get what he wants and you will create a problem.

Be consistent, be calm, be loving. Good luck!

You post is heart breaking...
Breastfeeding to sleep is NATURAL and is the best thing!
Are you on face book?
If you are, please please search for a lady / page called the milk meg..
There are so many helpful tips and ideas
Please don't upset yourself or your baby.. You need support..
Fwiw, I still bf to sleep 15m old DS and he co sleeps with me and DP.

Good luck sweetheart.

No offence, but Goodtoes is posting nonsense.
Your baby needs you. He won't need you like this forever.

GoodToes has a bery happy baby who sleeps 12 hours a night and 4 hours a day

Bery = very

I'm very pleased for you Goodtoes
However, for some people a different approach works too
themilkmeg.com/
is a great site

Fine, but feeding to sleep clearly isn't working for the OP is it? She's exhausted, uncomfortable and in pain. There's nothing wrong with feeding to sleep but there's nothing necessary about it either so if the OP wants to sleep more ( which is a completely legitimate point of view) then she needs to change the baby's sleep cues.

I had the same with my DS. I am into more "gentle" ways of things, and I would sit cuddling DS until he fell asleep.

He was/is still be comforted but breaking out the feed to sleep routine. Yeah ok, might be making another rod, but since I stopped BFing him back to sleep he sleeps a lot better, probably all night 4/5 times a week. Other nights, quick snuggle in my bed, wait for him to be in a deep sleep then put him back in his cot.

He did cry because he wasn't getting the BF, however I was always holding him, so he knew that I was still there and he was wasn't being left to cry on his own

Hi OP

Sorry to hear you're having a tough time. I fed my DD to sleep for months and could never bring myself to leave her to cry for long. Have you considered the 'gradual withdrawal' method? It's worked for us, but it does take a long time. Basically you take tiny tiny steps towards your baby sleeping independently. So, the first step would be cuddling to sleep instead of feeding to sleep. Then, once your baby can do that, you settle him with a hand on his tummy instead of a cuddle ... And so on and so on! The trick is to not move on a step too soon and not to be tempted to skip steps. It took us about two months to get from bed-sharing and feeding to sleep to DD sleeping in her own bed with one night feed.

On another note, could you ask to be transferred to a more supportive HV?

Good luck!

The "shush pat" sleep training method might be better at this age, if you find leaving him to cy too difficult (understandable). It still involves crying I am afraid, but you stay with your baby all of the time offering support, so he never feels abandoned.

You do your normal sleep routine, try separating feeding from sleeping though - perhaps feed then nappy change rather than the other way around.

Then lie baby in the cot with a gentle "Shush now baby, sleep time". He will cry.
Place a hand on his shoulder and repeat "Shush now baby, sleep time".
Some gentle patting with you just making a gentle shush noise.
Pat, shush, pat, shush.

He'll cry a lot, but you will always be there with him being kind and patient.

Remember this: Good sleep habits are normal for a happy and healthy child. You know this but your baby needs teaching. You are doing nothing wrong in teaching him this. You are the parent and he may cry, but he does need to learn how to sleep well.

The idea of Shush Pat is that at first it may time a long time, but soon just a quick shush and pat will be all that is needed to give him his cue that it is time to sleep. Then eventually if he wakes up just a reassuring hand on his shoulder so he knows you are there for him may be all he needs to go to sleep.

Good luck MissK16, you can do this

MistletoeBUTNOwine - Saying "no offense" does not make your post less offensive or rude to your previous poster, who has an option which is just as valid as yours. Learn to be more graceful.

Search for and read a thread on here called "what worked for us".
Worked for my DS1. He was 14mo but I think the lady in the original post (a few yes old now) had a DD similar in age to yours.
What helped me was knowing that DS1 wasn't crying because he was ill/in pain/abandoned, he was crying because he was just pissed off at me for not getting milk and for the change in routine! If you think of it that way it's easier to deal with. Plus you're always with them and you can soothe them other ways. Have a read, I found it very useful.

Sorry for offence caused, it just makes me cross that people think it's normal for babies to sleep all night!

Here's a cute link for those who's babies don't manage all- nighters
metro.co.uk/2015/04/07/11-comebacks-for-parents-of-babies-who-do-not-sleep-5138138/

Mistletoe, that is quite possibly the biggest load of bollocks I have ever read. No offence.

Op, please please don't feel like you are doing something wrong. It sounds utterly exhuasting and yes, clearly it needs to change in order for you to actually function.

The gradual withdrawal thing worked for my non sleeping ds- maybe read a bit more about that and give it a go?

I think you have had some good advice here. Shush pat and pick up / put down has got us from always feeding to sleep and hourly wake ups to self settling and often sleeping right through.
Please don't beat yourself up about it. You have of course done your best and feeding to sleep is a very natural thing to do. Some babies can feed to sleep and sleep through, others need something to change. Sleep training isn't all about leaving the baby to cry, as others say here there are gentler methods to use, but the baby will be frustrated and cry. You can still be there for comfort and with consistency and time you will get there. Dd was an awful awful sleeper and I was at my wits end too but we are miles away from there, she isn't a perfect sleeper but she generally does very well.
Best of luck, and remember you are under no obligation to see your HV. If she isn't helping then don't see her!

You poor thing! I'm so sorry you haven't been given the help and support you need.

Do you have any drop in HV clinics near you? We have a daily drop in clinic locally which is staffed on rotation. If you have similar, you may be able to speak to a different, more helpful HV.

I know every baby is different but here's what works for me- initially only worked at bed time but now works for naps.

I've got a light up sheep which plays lullabies attached to the side of the cot. I make sure DS is clean, fed etc and has a dummy then switch on the sheep. I lie on my bed, next to the cot and put my hand on his chest. I have my eyes pretty much closed so I don't make eye contact with him. If he gets a bit upset, I pat his chest and say "shhh". Apparently some babies need to have a little grumble before they'll sleep. If he full on cries, and it's sustained, I used to pick him up for a cuddle and to calm him down, then try again.

For daytime naps, if this doesn't work, after about 20 mins I take him downstairs and look out for tired signals, then start again.

I'm now getting to a point where I'm taking my hand off his chest earlier and earlier, with the aim of teaching him how to fall asleep on his own.

I really hope this works for you, but if nothing else it will give you something else to try; when I was having issues with DS's sleep, it always made me feel better to have a plan.

We had a horrible sleep regression at this age.

If you don't want to do any comtrolled crying, you need to find a different way to settle him to sleep without bf. You can still do bf to sleep at the start of the night, but how about cuddle to sleep at naptime, or shush pat? I'd also be tempted to reduce feeds during the night - how about feeding at bedtime and then only allowing one more bf (say after midnight) and then again in the morning? You might need DP/DH to step in to help with some of the wake ups.

It's not unusual for babies not to be sleeping through at this age. Co-sleeping can help too.

Hugs. Its so very very difficult.

What does he eat in the day? Have you done blw or traditional weaning? I would try and increase his calorie intake with food rather than bfing at this age. Then you might find the nights easier. Is there a surestart clinic you can get to? Have a look for drop in sessions and accost the hvs there.

I posted a thread about sleeping for my 10week old, and what I have taken from it is that you have to find what works for you and your baby. I can tell you what I do, and so can every other mom, but it may not suit you.

Up until very recently my baby BF on demand, but the other day when I was out, she screamed the house down and my partner struggled to soothe her, I came home and she stopped the second I held her, it was from then that we decided to change her feedig and sleeping habits and so far (touch wood) it's worked so much better for us. I can hear all my BF friends gasping with horror but who cares. Likewise if BF your baby to sleep has worked up until now, don't feel guilty about it. Now your baby seems to be changing I would suggest trying them with a bottle, formula or expressed, and when they have finished, pop them in the cot, in a darkened room, lullabies on, and sit next to bed utill baby is asleep. If you do this consistently baby will soon be happy to go down without screaming and you will get more than an hours sleep!

Good luck

Will he be rocked to sleep in the pram during the day? Could you try expressing and giving it him from a bottle? He might take more from a bottle and settle longer also your partner could bottle feed him whilst you sleep? Will he have a dummy? You could hold in his mouth and rock pat him to sleep at 1st then lead on to him just lying on his own with a dummy eventually.

I think that if you envisage not wanting to wait it out until the child decides to sttn of their own accord you're much better off doing it now. The more mobile they are, the harder work it is.

At 8 months old, they will not remember a thing in the morning.

Pick up put down might work. I just set rules for myself really so only settling in his cot rather than replacing one thing with another

Good luck op. Sleep deprivation is the worst but you don't have to suffer.

Sorry, just to add I would stop night feeding cold turkey.

I was in a similar situation and we have broken it. If you can work on not feeding to sleep at bedtime this may help. We achieved this by an earlier bedtime routine and putting baby down sleepy but awake. This didn't work with a later bedtime as baby would fall asleep feeding. The next step was to reduce the night feeds by doing anything other than feed - cuddle, shush pat in cot, dummy etc. this was really tough but we got there with help from my partner. It's important to be consistent if you do this and not go back to feeding to sleep. It took us 12 nights, but our baby wouldn't feed in the day so we had to slowly shift the feeding pattern. Our baby now wakes1-3 times a night rather than hourly and doesn't need feeding to sleep. Good luck.

Another link about 'sleeping through the night'
It all about balance, the more info you have the better decision you can make (re. Sleep training)
I'll bow out now.
Hope you get sorted x

www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/its-evolution-baby?bffb&utm_term=4ldqphz#4ldqphz

A buzzfeed article?