3yr old up before 5.30 every damn morning. Help!

[GladysTheGolem]

DS1 has always been a terrible sleeper.
DS2 & DD are younger and both sleep better.

No matter what time we put them to bed (usually 6 but we've tried earlier and later) he's up before dawn everyday.
He dropped his naps at 16months.
It doesn't make a difference if we have a 'quite' day or a busy day, but he takes longer to get to sleep after a quiet one.

He shares a room with DS2 and is waking him up, ds2 is 20m old and loves his sleep. Poor thing is ratty by 9 every day. Can't have him in with us (no room for his bed) and they love sharing a room together.

I've removed most of the toys so there's nothing massively stimulating but he's got a great imagination so is never bored!
What can I try?

How old is he? 6 seems awfully early unless he's only a few months old.

I would say with 6pm bed 5.30am is a reasonable waking time

I would move bedtime to 8pm. Make sure he gets lots of time outside in the afternoon. No tv or screen use at least 2hrs before bed.

When is he having dinner also if in bed by 6pm? I always think you can't expect them to go more than 12hrs from last meal as some are hungry by then. So dinner around 6pm not before imo. If he's currently eating at 4.30pm ( prob if in bed at 6), then it's realistic he's waking 13hrs after last meal

DS was the same. He is 5 now and does 7.30 to 6 but it took a black out blind and a gro clock to get us from 5 or before 5am wakings!

He was never a great sleeper either although always settled very well - just never slept for very long.

Now he cannot leave his room (except for toilet breaks) until the sun comes up on his clock at 6.15. If he wakes before, which is most days, he can read or colour or play with quiet toys n his bed. He has his own room though which makes this easier.

We did try later bedtimes (7.30) for a few weeks but that just had him overtired. He moans he's tired from midday onward.

We usually go in the garden after preschool for an hour, dinner At 5.30, go upstairs and do teeth/poo/story/bed so lights off at around 6.15.

I had childhood insomnia so guess this is payback!

They have a GroLight as we have to go in all night (eldest also wakes through night every other day, had night terrors but thankfully over them).
He broke his groclock resetting it all the time, he isn't allowed out the bedroom until 7 (they have a real clock, he can tell the time).

Bedtime is early because they're hanging by 6.
Tried putting ds2 down earlier than him but they both hate that.

Wouldn't mind it if either of them napped!!

Six is really early - people accuse me of having unreasonably early bedtimes (9pm for 14yo!) but I've never sent a child to bed before 7pm.

If he needs bed at 6pm, then try moving it later by 5min every other day for a couple of weeks to see if you can gradually adjust it.

DS1 was a very early riser and TBH, when he was very small I just went with it and was often pegging the washing out by 6:30 and in bed by 9pm myself.

Once he could recognise numbers (and Ds2 came along) I got him a digital clock and we had very strict rules about what numbers had to be on the clock before he could get up/wake anyone else

6pm is too early, even for a baby. I had to tackle an early waker and the bad news is it takes six months. The good news is, in the end they never work before 7am.

I would go back to the 7.30 bedtime (maybe get there by increments) and stick to it for months.

work = woke

I agree that for him, bedtime is too early. A 5.30am wakeup is completely reasonable if he is asleep at 6pm. As pp says, you could shift it in 5-10 min increments rather than jumping straight to a much later bedtime - that will avoid the overtiredness.

But....Don't forget clocks change in a couple of weeks so that will automatically shift everything an hour later without you needing to do a thing. Then stick with a 7pm bedtime.

I did mean 5.30 as the latest he wakes.
We do gradually move back/forwards with the clocks so I'll go the extra tonight!

6.30 bedtime lat night, he woke 6 times overnight before deciding on 4.30. He's been asking about going to the park since 7 so we're off out in 10mins.

Thanks everyone for replying, will gradually push him back & hope that this time it solves it!

6.30 downtime, 4 wake up time, somehow managed to get him back to sleep before he woke up ds2/dd.

Quangle, hoping your method works...if not, hopefully he'll be able to read soon so he can just read in bed st night/morning (it's what I did as a kid, used to get through 3 novels a week)!

I have a 5 month old who wakes at 5am on the dot every morning and won't go back to sleep. She goes to bed at 7pm. When the clocks go forward this weekend I'm just going to start putting her to bed at 8pm and hope her new waking up time will be 6am and that she will be none the wiser!

My 4.5 year old wakes anytime from 5 every single day no matter What.

Like you we have to do bed time around 6:30 / 7 as he is exhuasted and very badly behaved from about 4pm on a good day.

Later bed times wake it worse as he is then even more tired, although if he naps in the car that helps to stay up a little later and makes no difference to his wake up time.

No advice sorry but I know how difficult it is. People who thing 7am is early have no idea what it's like :(

Good luck to you both.
Mrs.Donovan they sound so similar! Wish we could get naps to work, he stopped napping at 16 months.

We've travelled to stay with famiy tonight so they didn't go down until 9.30...I'll cry if that's what it takes!

Good news! 9.30 bedtime had him up at 6 so today will be ratty day

6 is not a lie in but it feels like it is!

DS is 3.5 & goes to bed at 8 and wakes at 7. I think try again with the later bedtimes too.

6 is very very early. Can you not extend the bedtime routine? So that they are calming down but not full on sleep. If he eats at 5.30 you could have a longer bath and story time until 7.30. It's hard at the end of a long long day, but the payback is immense (well it may just mean a later start to the day!)

Offs with the clock change that's 5 isn't it?

Does he wake in the night too? Does he ever fall asleep in the day eg when in the car?
Is he warm enough, does he snore, are there loud birds etc? Is he a light sleeper?

My three year old needs the odd day nap occasionally - but not much e.g. 20 mins on the go and it doesn't mess with her bedtime unless it is a very long nap. So I'd try engineering one while you're shifting his night sleep.
Also if something takes 6 months, I would suggest that it was coincidental!

He can go through the night but can also wake 7/8 times (nose hurts, he needs a hug, bored of sleep, wants to know why we have shoulders etc). He doesn't sleep any better on frequent waking nights.
He slept in until 8 once when he was really ill with tonsillitis so infection might be the way forward!

He'll fall asleep in the car on a very long drive (3+ hours) but that's after spending te entire journey saying he doesn't want to sleep in the car.

He's dead to the world when asleep (dd wakes at 3 for a feed some days and the boys never stir).

I'm wondering if something is causing him to wake up so much at night and the nights he does sleep is because he's exhausted (hence being dead to the world).

Does he breathe through his mouth when asleep? Some kids have big tonsils - can result in mild sleep apnoea so they don't sleep very well etc. Could be other reasons too.