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How much sleep do they need?

19 replies

CHOCOLATEPEANUT · 26/10/2006 19:39

My best friend has a five year old that has never slept.He still shares her bed and goes to bed late but wakes up very early.She has always insisted that hes a child that doesnt need more than 8 hours but I disagree and I try to tell her but she will have none of it and thinks I am just a know all.I have told her about this site and hopefully she will be comong on for some advice.I beleive that children need to be 'trained' when young babies about sleep patterns and without wishing to sound smug my dd who is almost 3 sleeps 7-7 in her own room and its never been a problem.

What do people think?

OP posts:
slaughterfalls · 26/10/2006 19:48

My ds (5.8) and dts (2.10) sleep 12 hrs a night, every night, bedtime is never a problem, because I have never let it be, once I say its bedtime they know I mean it and they dont try and argue, from the day they were born they slept with the light off and door shut (start as you mean to go on) but I do think every child is different, is he naughty through the day? that might indicate sleep deprivation.

indignatio · 26/10/2006 19:50

ds - 4 - 11 hours

FrannyandZooey · 26/10/2006 19:50

Why does it bother you how many hours your friend's child sleeps, chocolatepeanut?

You sound as if you disapprove of her parenting methods and are starting this thread to score points, tbh

CHOCOLATEPEANUT · 26/10/2006 20:46

You could not be more wrong Franny

It doesnt bother me that he doesnt sleep but it does bother her and I have known her a very long time and know that she doesnt take advice easily and at the very least I want to be able to give her good advice but I am not an expert and I wonder if I am wrong in the advice i have given her so far ie that all children need a good nights sleep and should be able to sleep through

OP posts:
riab · 31/10/2006 13:12

I would say all children need more than 8 hours until they are about 8 or 9.
The problem with children is that the classic signs of sleep deprivation aren't yawning and rubbing their eyes its behaviuor, frustration, temper tantrums, headaches etc etc.

I agree with you about needing to help babies learn about sleep but i think if you have already raised this with your friend then you just have to let it lie. Anything else and you risk losing the friendship. Even if she complains about lack of her own sleep then DON'T jump in and offer advice, you have done that and she didn't want it. There's nothing worse than a smug 'know it all' telling you that what you are doing is wrong, especially if you havn't asked for any advice!
Just smile sweetly when she mentions it and say 'what a shame you must be tired'

sasa15 · 31/10/2006 19:27

my ds 2.3 sleeps 2 hours in the afternoon (2.30 to 4.30pm), and doesn't go to sleep up to 11.15pm at night.
Sometimes he wake up at 8.00am or 7.30am or 8.30am but he still goes to sleep at 11.15
sometimes I try to put him down early after dinner bath brushing teeth adn reading book...
and he doesnt want to know.......

Today for the first time he hasn't slept in the afternoon.........
he has been grumpy.....I hope tonight will go down quicker.........DH is already trying to put him down..........i'm at work evening shift...

finger crossed.........

don't know what is better.......nap or not.....

I think is happier....if he has nap.......but he doesn't seem tired then.......and he wants to play--so today I did leave him ...in the living room..........watch dvd.......i hope he sleep 12 hours..........

but i don't really know what to do........

sasa15 · 31/10/2006 19:36

how much sleep a 2 years old need?????

riab · 31/10/2006 20:10

I woudl say your Ds has too late and too long a nap and goes to bed far too late. Between 2 and 3yrs they need about 12 hours in total, usually 10-11 at night and 1-2 as a nap.

Do you have a good bedtime routine? the first thing i'd suggest is make sure you have a nice relaxing bedtime routine and one that doesn't involve you staying with him til he falls asleep.

Once you have a good bedtime routine then you need to move it back, statrt at 10.30pm (a beditme routine including bath will take about half an hour)
then every two nights move it back 30 mintues, so 10.30pm, then 10pm. Once you have got back to 7.30pm for an 8 o clock going to sleep you should be fine.

I make sure the afternoon nap is slightly earlier if you can, say 2-3pm.

a few questions:
where does your DS normally sleep for naps?
what do you do to get him to go to sleep?
do you wake him up from naps?

when you said you struggled to put him to bed earlier - what did he do and how long did you try for? if you change his routine suddenly he will protest, thats why I'd suggest moving it back gradually.

Get that bedtime routien sorted first though and give it a week to make sure he's used to it before you do any other changes.
That way he starts to know the 'bedtime' signals. My DS hates going to sleep but he does know about bedtime (18mo) and even if he is protesting a bit when i leave the room at 7pm(ish) he is asleep within 15 minutes.

sasa15 · 31/10/2006 20:29

HI RIAB,
he comes back from nursery about 2.00 pm that's why he does go to sleep about 2.30/3.00pm
because he likes to play a bit when he comes back.....
he use to have a good bed routine ....now i'm confused and I try different sometimes...

But bath at 7.00 he has dinner at 7.30 pm with us, then play a bit and read books....brush teeths and go to bed. for 10.30pm

he wakes up 8.30/9.00 am in the morning....
That suit me because I work late shift and go to bed at midnight....

But I'm not happy about all....

Bozza · 31/10/2006 20:35

So sasa I am confused. Are you happy with this routine or not?

My 5yo is in bed at 7.30 and up at 7 - so he is having 11.5 hours. Cannot see it changing for some time.

My 2yo is in bed the same at night - 11.5 hours and has somewhere between 0 and 2 hours nap. 2 hours Sunday, none yesterday, 1 hour today. So she is getting between 11.5 and 13.5 hours sleep in total.

sasa15 · 31/10/2006 20:35

ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION:
He has 2 soft toys ........in the cot...I put baby mozart on...and sometimes few other toys in the cot.....he plays a bit and then he follow asleep.-....
WE WAKE HIM UP after 2 hours max....sometimes he says go away mumy...and fall asleep again...and we insist few minutes later----

Before he goes to sleep sometimes I sit down in his room...and keep saying...come on good boy...go to sleep and put your head in the pillow....bbla bla...
and leave the room when is asleep......

riab · 31/10/2006 20:37

Two things jump out at me, I still think you need to shift that nap. I the nursery time fixed? or could you either pick him up later or earlier?
If it can't be changed just try and get him down for a nap asap and wake him up after an hour.

7.30pm is late to be having tea, can he have tea at 6pm before his bath, then once he has had a bath take him into his room and have milk/toast and a quiet read.

sasa15 · 31/10/2006 20:45

he doesn't have milk anymore at night time....

I'm in Italy and here kids having proper dinner at 7.30 pm---he has pasta cheese, ham fruit....
We usually go out from 6.00pm to 7.00pm in the square...play football....or have walks...

so I will be happy him to go to bed at 9.00pm the lates...that's mean 8.00pm in England...

but I'm happy to try different....

DH get him from school ...at 1.30pm...arrive at home at 1.45pm---and he likes to play a bit...doesnt't like to go to sleep and he looks awake,.....very hard to get him down...I could do 2.00pm to 3.00pm but how?
Control Crying???? I hate it at this age....

Bath at 6.00pm, dinner at 6.30, what else...
play and read book up to 8.00pm?

Would it work???

sasa15 · 31/10/2006 20:45

he doesn't have milk anymore at night time....

I'm in Italy and here kids having proper dinner at 7.30 pm---he has pasta cheese, ham fruit....
We usually go out from 6.00pm to 7.00pm in the square...play football....or have walks...

so I will be happy him to go to bed at 9.00pm the lates...that's mean 8.00pm in England...

but I'm happy to try different....

DH get him from school ...at 1.30pm...arrive at home at 1.45pm---and he likes to play a bit...doesnt't like to go to sleep and he looks awake,.....very hard to get him down...I could do 2.00pm to 3.00pm but how?
Control Crying???? I hate it at this age....

Bath at 6.00pm, dinner at 6.30, what else...
play and read book up to 8.00pm?

Would it work???

sasa15 · 31/10/2006 20:45

he doesn't have milk anymore at night time....

I'm in Italy and here kids having proper dinner at 7.30 pm---he has pasta cheese, ham fruit....
We usually go out from 6.00pm to 7.00pm in the square...play football....or have walks...

so I will be happy him to go to bed at 9.00pm the lates...that's mean 8.00pm in England...

but I'm happy to try different....

DH get him from school ...at 1.30pm...arrive at home at 1.45pm---and he likes to play a bit...doesnt't like to go to sleep and he looks awake,.....very hard to get him down...I could do 2.00pm to 3.00pm but how?
Control Crying???? I hate it at this age....

Bath at 6.00pm, dinner at 6.30, what else...
play and read book up to 8.00pm?

Would it work???

sasa15 · 31/10/2006 20:45

he doesn't have milk anymore at night time....

I'm in Italy and here kids having proper dinner at 7.30 pm---he has pasta cheese, ham fruit....
We usually go out from 6.00pm to 7.00pm in the square...play football....or have walks...

so I will be happy him to go to bed at 9.00pm the lates...that's mean 8.00pm in England...

but I'm happy to try different....

DH get him from school ...at 1.30pm...arrive at home at 1.45pm---and he likes to play a bit...doesnt't like to go to sleep and he looks awake,.....very hard to get him down...I could do 2.00pm to 3.00pm but how?
Control Crying???? I hate it at this age....

Bath at 6.00pm, dinner at 6.30, what else...
play and read book up to 8.00pm?

Would it work???

riab · 31/10/2006 20:52

If you're happy with 8.30 or 9pm so you fit in with your culture (wish I was in italy!) then 7.30pm should be okay to eat. Have tea then at 8pm start bedtime routine.

If you really don't want to do CC then you need to get hold of someone who can explain gradual withdrawal to you. Whatever you do i'm afriad you may have a few tears but if you want things to be different you have to go through that stage!

If he looks awake at 2pm then maybe he doens't need the nap at all, how about trying quiet time with dim lights? I'd cut the nap down to an hour if you keep it so he sleeps 2.30-3.30pm. Then he shoudl be tireder and ready for bed at 8.30/9pm.

sasa15 · 31/10/2006 21:43

he had quite time today from 2.30 to 3.30 pm no nap...
I just had news from DH...
ds has been tired and grumpy today...no nap...
but he went down at 8.45pm...

so DH can have a bit of time for himself...
so yes good idea for nap from 2.30 to 3.30pm
7.30 dinner and bedtime routine...

sasa15 · 09/11/2006 13:48

I'm still having a problem...with ds...

ds is much better if he sleeps a bit in the afternoon...

but still end up going to bed very late.......10.30 /11.00 p.m---

I think is natural for him...but don't know....if
I should insist....

I avoid all the "crying"-don't if it's right!

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