New member but old problem

[Dad12]

Hello all, I hope you allow me as a father to join in your conversations. My wife is at home with our little boy of 17 months and unfortunately has no internet access. I look at the site frequently and find it very helpful, sensitive and intelligent comments. I want to ask for advice about our sons sleep issues which are beginning to have a really stressful effect on all our health..he needs to be held in my wifes arms for up to half an hour to fall asleep, he won't let me do it, cries out for mum. Then in the night he wakes nearly every hour, wanting water or dummy. We put him in the bed with us, but it continues. His problem is big tonsils and adenoids so he is a mouth breather, gets a dry mouth and I think gaggs abit then wakes. We don't feel comfortable with the cry method, we also feel a need to be close to him because of mild sleep apnea due to his congestion. Does any on know how early you can have adenoids removed? or have similar children ?

Having sleep problems with my 9mo atm and have a 2.6yo who didn't sleep well till he was 19mo, so empathise.

Welcome to MN.

Can you take him to the GP re his adenoids?

i htink he either isnt winded or is cold

It sounds to me like you have more than one issue. The settling to sleep one is totally seperate to the night waking.

Is there no way he could manage to get his own dummy/water?

DS had his adenoids out at 3.7. But his was a glue ear issue, although he has also always been a mouth breather - but a brilliant sleeper at 17 months. Have you spoken to the doctor about the adenoids?

Sorry I know I am not being much help here.

Definitely two issues. Settling to sleep is one & adenoids & tonsils are another.
I hate to say this but the settling to sleep thing is where you are going to have to bite the bullet & wean him away from your wife's arms. You could do this a number of ways. You could crack it in 3 days with controlled crying or you can choose a slower method along the lines of Elizabeth Pantley's no cry solutions. There isn't really any simple solution - he has just got into a habit of being held & doesn't want to give that up.
The tonsils and adenoid thing definitely needs a consultation with your GP. In all honesty the dummy probably doesn't help much if he is a mouth breather - but I think weaning him off that & out of your wife's arms could all be a bit much at once!

To Bugsy2, thank you for your thoughts. Can you tell me anything more about Eliz. Pantley. Also is it possible to do the crying technique in 3 days? I always thought it was a more drawn out affair. We have seen a GP several times about the Adenoid problem, he calls the tonsils kissing as they touch. Also saw a consultant who said he was abit young and to come back later.
To Hunkermunker, thank you for your welcome and thoughts.
Bozza, what was your experience with the operation?
Davinci, thanks...maybe we need to make sure we wind him beforesleep, we're not doing it because he's dropped the last bottle now. I don't think he's too cold as he sleeps in a sleep-bag and I often think he might be abit warm if anything.

He's having that new meningitis jab this afternoon so sitting here at work abit apprehensive. Have to say as a guy, it's nice to chat about these things..I work in a male dominated office type environment...thanks again for replies

DS was OK with it. Obviously it is not nice seeing your child going down for a general (DS has had 4 in total and this was the 3rd time). He had his second lot of grommets at the same time. He had a sore throat and woke up crying and disoriented (throwing himself around) but then calmed down. I was also fully breastfeeding 3mo DD at the time so we were at the hospital en masse. The op was a day case and he had to stay in 4 hours after having it. He had to starve from the night before and be at the hosptital for 7am. It was a paediatric case load and they send them down in age order - youngest first. DS is getting gradually further down the order from when he had his first op at 11 months.

TBH in DS's case I have not noticed much difference (unlike the grommets which improve his hearng immediately). He still mouth breathes and gets just as many viruses etc as ever.

Controlled crying sounds awful, but actually it is not that bad at all. You basically put your baby/toddler to bed & you say "time for sleep now" or something similar. Then depending on how wimpy or strong you are, you go in every two mins, every 5 mins, etc & say the same thing again but you do not pick up your child. You keep going until they fall asleep. I did it for night time waking & falling asleep in the evening. It took 3 hours with the night time waking the first night, 40 mins the second night & 15 mins the third. Slept through thereafter. I think this is a fairly common pattern.
Evening settling was always much easier, usually no more than an hour the first night, about 20 mins second & rarely had to do it any more than that.
You have to be absolutely determined though. There is no point thinking that you'll just do it for an hour & then go & pick them up. You have to see it through. It is not cruel (well other than to exhausted, never shattered parents). You are constantly going in to your child to reassure them that you are there, they are not alone or frightened. Your DS will most likely be mad as hell though & will probably yell his head off.
Elizabeth Pantley wrote a book "No cry sleep solutions" which just takes a far longer route, where you wean yourself slowly away from your baby. So you start by putting them in their cot & when they cry you pick them up & comfort them & then put them back again or you put them back but with your arm wrapped around them.
It was too protracted for me, I just knew I didn't have the stamina for that - but other MNers who've used her methods might be able to give you more help.

Thanks Bugsy for the comprehensive reply...I'm sure it has to be done for the sanity of all. DS is starting to get heavy now and its going to do my wifes back in. she gets really depressed about it too..which is just silly if you don't enjoy the holding them till they sleep time. Perhaps tonight is not a good night to start though after his jab...I'm sure I'm going to think of another reason not to do it tomorrow! but it will have to happen soon...
Thanks Bozza for your experiences. Can't have been nice all of you at the hospital. I can't stand going there, I always think its the place to pick up something. We've had to take DS down to A&E about 3 times, croup, high temp(41)...usual parent panics I gather. They don't seem to do much, just monitor your child and sent you home. I'm surprised you did'nt notice much improvement with your DS after all was done. Do you think mouth breathing is a habit they get into? Have you got a cat as well? somebody suggested my DS blocked up condition could be allergy related..don't know..

Hi Dad12, welcome,

I can recommend Tracy Hogg's second book. She does a very simple approach to dealing with issues like yours (she calls them accidental parenting, something that came about out of necessity and needs to be remedied) her approach allows you to have full control of baby going to sleep without the controlled crying bit. It will take you 3-5 days, but it works. I found with my son every time he reached a new milestone it would go back to bad habits for a week, and I then just go straight back to Tracy Hogg's method. here

I also recently watched a program about a 12 month old that was treated at Guy's and St. Thomas' for sleep apnea due to enlarged tonsils and adenoids, which they in fact removed. Hope this helps.

No we have no cat. TBH I don't think DS was done because of the mouth breathing - which has never really been an issue for him. I think it was hoped that it would alleviate the glue ear - but it didn't and, in fact, he has subsequently had more, longer term grommets inserted.

I wonder if it would be best to start any sort of sleep training at a weekend when you don't have to be at work the next day and you and your wife can support each other through it (and also one or both of you could sneak in a nap next day). I, personally, would be tempted to go for controlled crying, but you have to decide if this is right for you and your wife. I think I would start with the bedtime issue and then depending on how that goes tackle the night waking.