8 month old won't sleep

[CoodleMoodle]

I know it's late and I'm unlikely to get a reply right now, but I'm at the end of my tether with recently turned 8mo DD.

She's always been a bad sleeper, but she'd been getting better and has long since dropped any night feeds. At the moment she's got something giving her slight diahorrea, but it doesn't seem to bother her. We're getting test results in the morning hopefully but I don't think that's the problem. It's probably seperation anxiety, but I can't cope with it any longer. These two nights are not in isolation.

Her current schedule is like this:

Anywhere between 5-6:30am: up, milk

Anywhere between 7-8am (depending on when she first woke): nap, sometimes for over an hour!

Between 8:45-9am: awake.

12pm: nap (45mins and then she's up, have been trying for 5 months to get longer naps but nothing works)

3:45pm: nap (45mins again)

7:30pm: bed (never falls asleep at 7:30 though)

This has been okay for the last couple of weeks, despite all naps being a fight even though she's exhausted. B ut last night and tonight she will not let me put her down. I'm currently sitting up with her sleeping on me. She wakes up screaming as soon as I go to put her down. Co-sleeping isn't really an option with DH in the bed, but she won't let me put her down AT ALL so that doesn't matter anyway. My back is breaking because I can't even move to sit up against the pillows, and this is going to tip me over the edge. I'm fine with everything else, but these sleep issues are making me crazy. I'm a different person after a reasonable night.

She's on three 8oz bottles and one 9oz bottle per day, and she often doesn't finish them (5-6oz per time). They are normally around 6, 10, 2 and 6 with half an hour leeway or so. She will not take solid food of any sort (purree, mush, finger food, etc). I'm not worried about this really, but maybe it's not helping.

DH has tried but she won't settle for him in the night. He's getting up for work in 4hrs and I don't have anybody else to help me. DM could come over but she can't get her to sleep or eat much at all (not her fault) so I wouldn't get much rest. DD won't sleep in the buggy or car, only if I (or occasionally DH) rock her on the edge of the bed in the dark. I can't sleep with her crying downstairs.

I can't face this tomorrow and the day after. I'm going crazy.

Sorry for the garbled mess of a post.

Not a garbled mess. , it drives you to the end of your bloody tether.

The more tired she is, the harder it is to sleep. Which I daresay you've worked out. First nap looks good - the golden rule of 90 minutes after waking always worked for us. And an hour sounds about right. But she should probably nap for longer later on.

Is she getting over tired between nap 1 and nap 2? what do you usually do between about 9am and noon?

More questions: Is she crawling? before this bout of separation anxiety / regression was she sleeping through? what is happening during the night now?

In this situation I would co sleep (DD generally sleeps in her cot, but we have co slept at various points for sanity). Lie in bed with her on your chest until she falls asleep, then roll her over to be next to you. DH on the sofa or spare bed if you have one.

Hi rooty, thank you for commenting. In the end we did sort of co-sleep. She fell asleep on me sitting up and I managed to roll her onto the bed. She then slept for two hours or so, but I didn't as I was so uncomfortable. Then she woke up screaming and wouldn't let me put her down anywhere, but would sleep on me sitting up. Finally I managed to lay down cuddling her, but she woke up every half an hour or so. Then she woke up at 6:15 properly, I fed her and we played for a bit, and then she slept from 7:45-9am in the cot, no problem. I just don't understand.

DH has taken the day off to help me, but this can't go on forever. He can't sleep on the sofa as it's too small, and we don't have a spare bed, so co-sleeping long term just isn't an option.

I've tried EVERYTHING to get her to sleep longer in the afternoon, but it really makes no difference. Whether we've just stayed home and played, or gone out (for a very short time as we have to be back by 12, due to lack of sleeping in the car/buggy), she pings awake after 45mins, sometimes less, and that's that. I've tried being easy about her naps and 'going with the flow', but that makes things ten times worse.

She's not crawling at all, nor is she rolling or making any attempt to do so. She's been sitting up for quite some time, though. And she has her two front teeth, but nothing else at the moment. She was, for the most part, sleeping 7:30pm-6am, sometimes waking up because she'd bumped her head on the cot or similar, but never for milk and NEVER like this. When she was a bit younger she'd wake in the night for two hours and refuse to go back to sleep, and I thought I was going crazy then.

She also has CMPI, and I think its got worse. hence not wanting to eat. DH has just tried to give her the 10amish bottle, she's had half and won't try any more. Her test results were 'no further action' but I've requested a callback from the doctor as her nappies are still so frequent and runny.

Just don't know what to do anymore. All she does all day is make this horrible groaning noise and it's driving me batty.

Oh, and the first nap makes no difference. Whether she sleeps for 45mins or 90mins, she's the same throughout the day.

I'm trying so hard not to be frustrated with her because there's obviously something making her really unhappy (although she IS mostly happy during the day, if very angry at the world when it doesn't go her way), but it's so hard right now.

Argh, just wrote long message and lost it !
As she is cmpi is there a chance some hidden dairy has got into her diet ? Or, soya , another food she could be a little allergic to?
What about teething? Tried nurofen ? (Calpol does nothing for my dd when teething )
If she is uncomfortable lying down except on you , and has diarrhoea. perhaps she's feeljng unwell tummy wise.
Sure you are onto all that already. As far as naps etc go she sounds just like my dd. if she was sleeping through doubtless this is a phase. Sympathies !

Oh, why do you think cmpi has got worse? What milk is she on ?
My dd is also cmpi but growing out of it at nearly 12 mo. Dont know why this would affect solids though , was the medical advice that way? May be unrelated to cmpi

Hi Josephine, thanks for your comment too.

I'm not sure that the CMPI has got worse, I just can't think of anything else... She's had diarrhoea for nearly two weeks, now, and dirties her nappy a tiny amount about ten minutes after each feed (except the last one, normally). She refuses ALL solids (we started trying to wean her at 6mo, but she refuses everything) and is only on Aptamil Pepti 1, so I don't think anything has got into her diet. She won't drink water, either, even in her bottle. She won't take anything but milk.

At first we thought teething, but she has no other symptoms other than being generally irritable. We did have her on Calpol but getting it in her was causing her so much stress, and she tended to throw most of it back up. We might try and get some Nurofen today.

DH is currently speaking to the doctor, hopefully they'll have some kind of solution because I can't see this ending any time soon

Oh, sounds rough. Have you seen a dietitian ?
My dd is bf but I recall aptamil Pepti being only a partially hydrolysed formula. Does that sound right to you?
If you think she is reacting to that , which sounds quite possible, perhaps the doctor or paediatrician can get you some formula which contains no milk protein at all?
If the poo is mucousy it seems likely that could be the cause.

Yep, we saw the dietician a few months ago, she said to just keep going and we'll try to reintroduce CM when she's a year (already got an appointment for a couple of weeks before her birthday). Thinking about giving her a call, she said we could if we needed to. Dr suggested calling the HV but they are utterly, utterly useless here (their advice for her terrible naps was "have you tried getting her to stay asleep a bit longer?"), so I'm going to avoid that route as much as possible. They also refused to believe she had CMPI when I first mentioned it, despite DH having it as a baby and her displaying ALL of the signs... Sorry, that still riles me several months later!

Pepti 1 does contain some milk protein. This was my thought too, in that there's still enough milk left in there to cause her problems. She's been absolutely fine on it up until the last two weeks, but I suppose it can flare up at any time. Her poo is sometimes mucousy, and sometimes 'normal', except in small amounts. She used to go once per day, possibly twice, and that was it. Now it's upwards of six times.

The doctor has actually told my DH that she's going to speak to the paediatrician today and ring us back, so hopefully we'll have some answers soon. Maybe the night waking is just developmental, but if the milk is bothering her then that can't be helping.

Eek, I put DD down for a nap at 12, and she's still asleep. This is unheard of at the moment. I assume she's still tired from the night, but I really hope this isn't going to make tonight worse! She does have the very occasional 'long' nap of over 45mins which is great, but they always seem to come back and bite us in the bum later

Dr rang back and has sent us to the hospital to see the paediatrician. Says they're concerned that she's not drinking her milk properproperly AND not taking solids to make up for that.

Really hope they can help. They did when she was 3 days old and not getting any milk from bfing...

Good luck. Let us know how you get on . Be a bit pushy if need be !!

It was awful! DD screamed at everyone who tried to touch her. She had her toe pricked and her temperature taken, and someone looked in her mouth and ears.

They said that the viral infection she had weeks ago has gone, but left a temporary case of lactose intolerance. We got Nutramigen. DD won't drink it. At all. She goes nuts if the bottle goes near her. She also wouldn't sleep at the hospital and conked out in the car for 20mins on the way home. Woke at 6, into PJs, watched In The Night Garden and then refused to drink. Currently asleep on me but I know when I put her down she'll wake up. Or she'll wake up starving in a couple of hours and refuse to drink.

They've referred us back to the HVs because she won't take solids, but I'm really not sure what they're going to do about it. As I said, they're beyond useless.

Tonight is going to be hellish.

You poor thing. I have no experience of CMPI or lactose intolerance but I'm glad you got her checked out and have some answers - or indications at least.

Coping strategies until she settles down again (and she absolutely will, she was sleeping brilliantly and she will again) - in the same way you would if an older child got ill, I would let the routine go a bit. Give up on the idea of bedtime. Let her sit up with you and watch some tv. Get into the bath and play together for a while. Whatever you can do to keep yourself relatively relaxed, since she is going to do what she's going to do, regardless!

Re drinking - have you tried a cup? sometimes a little change that seems inconsequential to us helps.

What has been the story with her weaning?

More . Sounds really tough.

Just been reading your thread. Really feel for you :( and hope things improve soon.
Just wondered-have you tried baby led weaning at all? Not necessarily in the strictest sense but maybe just offering some foods in their natural form that she can pick up? My dd refused all mush on spoons so I gave up with it and just put in front of her exactly what we were having (as long as it didn't contain too much salt) and she absolutely loved it! Some days she'd hardly eat anything, just touch it to her mouth then throw it away but now she's really enjoying it all. X

Oh no, you poor love. I have heard nutrimagen is rank but I think I read a tip about adding a small amount of ribena to make it taste better? Not great I know but maybe worth a shot if desperate? Or could you mix it with her old milk to start, to get her used to the taste?
Sounds rough. Hoping it gets better soon

I can't really comment on the not eating solids etc as I'm pretty lucky there, but it does sound like she may be having too many naps in the day. Your routine sounds similar to what our DS was at about 6/7 months but by 8 he'd long dropped to 2 naps, one between 9-10 for an hour and another hour at 2-3ish. His bedtime is also 7.30 and he wakes about 6. His nighttime sleep went haywire between 4-7 months due to teething, weaning etc but it did improve when he dropped the third nap.
At 9 months he's currently trying to drop his afternoon nap but can't manage it yet.

Thanks all. Things a bit better today. She slept from 7:50pm until 6:50pm, and I think we woke her up by whispering about the fact that she was still asleep! Then she had a 45min nap on me, and two 30min naps in the cot. She had 4oz of the new milk at 7am, 5oz at 10am and 6oz at 2pm. Currently having her last bottle with Daddy, hoping she'll finish it. In a relatively good mood, and no dirty nappies so far! Amazing, considering the last couple of days.

rooty, we're sort of sticking to her 'routine' but not stressing about it. She was up late as I said, and is still 'on track' for the right bedtime. She seems fine in herself, actually, as she has done for the most part. I'm just wary of tonight. With regards to the weaning, we started her at about 6mo on porridge. The first day she finished the lot. On the second she had a few spoonfuls, and then it went downhill from there. She won't accept a spoon, nor will she attempt to do it herself (via spoon or with her fingers). Then I decided to try giving her bits of what I'm having, or her own little finger foods, but she either ignores them or picks them up and throws them away. She's just not interested. She doesn't put anything in her mouth, actually, apart from her thumb.

So, george, BLW didn't work either! I've long since given up on mush, but she's not having it! I keep trying, though. If I eat something, she has a bit. Tbf, she shouts at me if I don't give her a piece! Part of her morning ritual is that I cut off a corner of my toast and she holds/throws that. Nothing in the mouth, though.

josephine, that's an interesting tip. She seems to be getting better with the milk. DH has just shouted through that she's had 6oz, and I'll take the rest up with me and try her on it before I get her to sleep. Hopefully she'll take it!

And lisa, sometimes I think she's ready to drop it, and other times I'm not. She's clearly SO tired in the day, and after three hours she starts moaning because she wants a sleep. I'm sure she'll be dropping one soon, and hopefully extending her lunchtime nap along with it! Ah, to go out somewhere without having to come back for her nap...! (Yes, we've done this many times.)

Thanks all, really means a lot

Sounds great OP . Fingers crossed it continues and she's back to her usual self x