baby refuses to self soothe can anyone please help me?!!!!

[LimesMum]

DD is 8.5 months, just wondering if anyone else is going through this or has done??

I've tried every type of sleep training I can find to no avail. Just at the end of 2 weeks of controlled crying which has made absolutely no difference apart from mentally scarring me!!! I can't explain what kind of state she gets herself into... At first when I went in at timed intervals I could calm her down but now she just goes utterly ballistic when I go in. It takes over an hour to calm her. She just stays standing in the cot and makes no attempt to lie down and go to sleep.

She is definitely tired as when I eventually resort to feeding her she goes straight off.

Rocking used to help but now even rocking won't get her to sleep.

Is there a chance she will just grow out of this?? I'm at my wits end now and just do not know what to do to help her learn how to go to sleep on her own

Thanks

something for reference - if they have an ear infection, it hurts more when they are lying down so if you are worried, or if she is pulling on her ears, then maybe get that checked out

its not a continuous line for sleep - there are many ups and downs, and rather than thinking of it as a regression, think of it as another developmental stage she is going through (yeah, I know, doesn't really help when you are exhausted...)

have a

Mentally scarring you?! Your poor poor daughter.

Just relax caravanista13 . The OP is sleep deprived, shattered and trying her best...like the rest of us. Feel free to offer her some babysitting if you think you can do better.

Yes thank you caravanista, that is extremely helpful to me and has made me feel really good and reassured.

If you read my post I actually state that I can no longer continue with this for that very reason which is why I have stopped. If you have any further helpful advice I'd be extremely grateful rather than unhelpful sarcastic comments.

Thanks to everyone else for your help

How is her daytime sleep? My dcs were both rubbish sleepers but I (after lots of desperate searching for help, reading every book out there) got them into good napping routines, early bedtimes etc.. Although I started by feeding them to sleep, soon I could just lay them down in the cot, and they'd just roll over and go to sleep. They did both have dummies, I don't think I could have done it without them; if they half woke up in the night, they'd just grope around for a dummy and plonk it in. But I never did controlled crying, I always responded to them.

I think them not getting overtired is key, so I would work on a morning nap and an afternoon nap (both in the cot, not in a pushchair - deeper sleep), and an early bedtime, around 4 hours after she wakes up after the second nap.

Don't worry about feeding her to sleep. Give her a feed, cuddle/rock her, let her doze off, gently lay her down. I would just work on that for now - resetting her sleep patterns, getting her rested again.

Dahliabloom she tends to have 2 daytime naps. First is around 9 ish (very ish) and 2nd around 3 ish she then goes to bed at 7-730

Would you suggest I change these nap times?

I would try and make the second one earlier, because it's quite a long gap between first and second - how long does she nap in the morning? - espeically if she's had a disrupted night. You might even find that while she's having the broken nights, she has a 3rd mini nap. I know it seems mad, and everyone's afraid that if they nap too much in the day, they won't sleep at night, but sleep begets sleep and the better rested they are generally, the better they sleep at night.

Generally I would aim for a 9am nap, then one after lunch, say at 12.30 or 1pm. And just keep an eye out for tired signs - rubbing the eyes is already a bit late, look out for a slight sort of spacing out, looking a big vague - and when you see them, get her to her room (dark, if possible) and into her cot asap. (After a bit of rocking, feeding if nec.). Then take her out after that second nap so she gets fresh air and stimulation.

If you watch out and start to recognise those tired signs, you might find that - especially at the moment, when she's been up at night - she needs an even earlier bedtime, say 6pm. If she does, just go for it, don't try to keep her up later. Once you get her into a better pattern, and she's sleeping better at night, you can push her bedtime back a bit (7).

Normally naps 60-90 mins in morning but since sleep bad at night this has hugely reduced. Today she only did 30 mins and I had a complete nightmare to get her down. Fed to sleep but woke, rocked to sleep maybe 5 times but just kept waking few mins after I left the room. None of this has ever been an issue before

Only way I got her to nap this afternoon was in the car and only lasted 40 mins.

So since 3 am she has had 2 hours sleep....

I try and avoid commenting on sleep threads because they tends to turn a bit nasty. But your dd sounds so much like mine that I thought I'd chime in.

What worked for us in the end was "pick up/put down". Basic rules are that you lay you baby down in their cot and when they cry you pick them up and sssh/rock them. As soon as they stop crying you place them back down. They might well cry as soon as the downward motion starts but you have to put them down and remove your hands. You can then pick them straight back up again.

With our dd it took a solid hour and 20 mins the first night. 45 mins the second night, 20 mins the third night and on the 4th, I put her in her bed and she went to sleep. She slept through for the first time that night and has ever since.

I preferred this method because I was with her the whole time and never left her to cry. She cried a lot but I was there all of the time.

I used some tips from the No Cry Sleep Solution as well to set a good bedtime routine.

I actually think it's really important to help "teach" your children to sleep well in their own beds. We found that dd was less grizzly and sad during the day once she was getting full night's sleep. So I believe in sleep training even if there is no research to prove it exists...

My dd.went through.terrible patch of.sleep around this.age - up for hours in the middle of the night playing, very unlike her. check out.the wonder weeks chart it explains everything and is very reassuring

Wow PUPD is one thing I actually haven't tried yet. Is that from the Baby whisperer book? Maybe I should buy and try that next. Did you do this for daytime naps too? Does it normally work so quickly?

Off to bed now to bank some sleep.... Wonder how long I'll get tonight?! It's more the fact I can't get her back to sleep that is getting to me rather than the actual getting up!!!

It's in a couple of books but I never read the Baby Whisperer so I'm not sure. The only book we read was the no cry sleep solution.

She was a terrible napper and I can't actually remember what we did about those. I think it was a bit of a combo of pupd, rocking and hand holding. The naps only really straightened out when she got to 1 and switched to one long lunch time nap (2hours!) which she still has at 3yo...

Limes - I think people are right about 8.5 months and the wonder weeks. Mine's just turned 9 months and we had some crazy nights a few weeks ago.

I echo Ninja on the NCSS for ideas on establishing a routine. I wouldn't bother reading the BW - she's quite rigid about routines and not v supportive of BFing but give PUPD a go perhaps.

When I did sleep training I was advised to get DD2 napping however I could whilst we got self-settling at night sorted, then start with first nap of the day then go onto the 2nd.

But maybe wait a week or so just in case you are in a particularly weird patch.

Here we go again... 1130pm this time and still wide awake, screms like in agony, won't be soothed in any way. Turned light on low to change her and she's laughing and joking and wanting to play......

I forgot to add she does this strange thing... When Bf she sort of paws at my arms and chest, very hard often pinching and causing a lot of pain. Think this is her way of soothing... Anyone else had this? She also bites me really blooming hard on my arms and chest, not my boobs luckily!!!

I've tried and tried to give her comforters but she is having none of it and has never taken a dummy

My DS is a lot younger than yours but I have also noticed that day time naps have a big impact at night sleep. I agree with DahliaBloom. Look at making day time naps more regular and longer.
Does she fall asleep when you take her out for a walk? Fresh air would be good for both of you and my DS sleeps a lot better when we are out. We have a garden and it might be a bit controversial but I leave him out for hours and he really enjoys it (the back door is always open and I can hear him at all times). He has a sheepskin underneath and he is snuggled up in his snowsuit. His naps in the house only last 30-40minutes but outside he sleeps really peacefully for hours. Mind you, I'm from Scandinavia and it is normal there!
The other thing I have noticed is that the more he cries one day, the more he cries the next! So I make sure, that I attend to him as soon as he wakes up and try to avoid him getting overtired.
Maybe keep eye on the awake periods and make them a bit shorter. Put her to bed before she starts yawning and rubbing her eyes. Once she is too tired, she will refuse to fall asleep.
Good luck and hopefully she will start sleeping better soon!

Is it possible she is scared of the dark? Have you tried a night light?

Some little ones get a bit excited with bf and have to taught manners otherwise they can really hurt you. Have you tried taking her off the breast every time she hurts you, putting her down for a short while and then letting her latch on again? You'll probably get some major tantrums at first but she should soon learn that if she hurts you the breast goes away.

I know it's easy to say this but if even feeding/rocking won't soothe her it's probably a sleep regression/developmental thing. Both of mine have really disturbed sleep through sleep regressions. Dd is generally a shit sleeper so it was hard to tell when they started but ds is generally a good sleeper so the change is more pronounced. 4 months, 8/9/10 months and 18 months. Fwiw we did cc with dd and it was very effective short term but within a month she was waking again and eventually I couldn't face it again.

So last night was a complete write off.... Up almost the entire night, nothing helped and in the end she went to sleep on her own with a lot of crying. I even tried bedding down on a mattress next to the cot with a hand on her. She just seemed to want to get up and play!!!

She has a nightlight so don't think it's the dark.

She does fall asleep on a walk so maybe I'll just go for more walks but thought it was better to get her napping in the cot in the day?

Today I resorted to driving a long way to ensure she had decent naps!! Not the answer I know but just wanted to let her have a chance to rest and get back on track.... She went down a bit easier tonight... Watch this space!!

How are you getting on? It's better to get them to sleep in a cot as they have a deeper sleep that way, but I think at the moment you just need to get her sleeping in the day, to sort of reset her patterns.

Take her out in the pushchair at naptimes, get her sleeping. Make sure that she's not awake for longer than 2.5-3 hours during the day, with the exception of the period before bedtime which should be around 4 hours.

I also think that the darker the room the better. Mine definitely slept better and longer in a pitch black room.

You need to stick to a plan for about two weeks, I think, so don't be tempted to give up after a rotten night and try a different strategy! I would work on the daytime sleep and awake periods during the day and take it from there.

Good luck and keep us posted!

I am here at 12:40 am because my ~8 month old baby has started behaving like a newborn waking up every 2 hours and crying for boobs. He is also teething. I don’t believe in sleep training, i feed him on demand, almost exclusively breastfed him till 4 months, co-sleep for half the night- all practices that my husband frowns upon along with my pediatrician. But i have been steadfast in my belief that if i meet my baby’s needs when I am around, he will be secure when i am not around. My husband kept telling me I am spoiling him and he will have a hard time at daycare. On the contrary, he has fun at daycare, being the most active and inquisitive child there. When he comes back home, he wants me a lot. But not in a crying, clingy way. I don’t really mind waking up to feed him at night. In fact since he is a tiny baby, i want him to get those extra calories. However, he has been waking up every 1-2 hours for the last few days and would not settle unless i offer the breast. He has 2 teeth and a third breaking through that rubs against my nipples making them sore. I am tired at work. All of this made me question my practices. Did i really spoil my baby? Did i just make my own life miserably difficult. So i am here on this message board. And once again i am convinced, it’s not half bad a situation. So what if i will be sleep deprived for a few more weeks. What’s another month when so many months have passed. My advise to you would be to change your expectation. After all, as adults we should be capable of that, rather than expecting our babies to do that. Try to not approach it like a battle. Mom’s stress passes on to the child- they can sense it. If you are not settled, they won’t settle either. Don’t worry when she will fall asleep and when you would fall asleep. Just enjoy the time with her. When my baby goes like that, I don’t just mechanically sush or rock or hum. I try to talk to him, i communicate with him, ask him what’s wrong. I cannot tell you that it settles him. But it settles me. It helps me see the human in the baby. I think because babies don’t communicate with us in our language, we kind of forget that sometimes.