Where do I start? need help with 3yr old's sleeping habits.

[rosie79]

When ds was a baby the only way he would fall asleep was while bf, and when that stopped at 18 months I still had to lie with him while he fell sleep. Now he is 3 and a half and still the only way he falls asleep is with me or other family members lying with him. This takes between ten and 30 minutes. He has also never slept through the night and gets up and into my bed which I have never discouraged. Now it is at the point where I'm not usually aware of him getting into my bed. The thing is, I now want to train him to fall asleep on his own and to not get into my bed or need me to get back to sleep at night. I have no idea how to go about this without causing lots of crying and upset. I have enjoyed him co-sleeping with me and there is enough room as I'm a single mum, but I just feel it's time he was less dependant on me for sleeping! I have been trying to be more aware of him getting into my bed and taking him back to his, then lying with him till he falls asleep again. This is wearing me out as happens three or four times a night, and it isn't consistasnt as I don't always wake up. If he wakes after 5 I can't get him back to seep in his own bed, so we end up getting up then. I'm so tired now. He sleeps till 7 when in my bed and doesn't wake up again in the night if he's with me. What do I do??? Any sggestions or your own experinces would be great!

He needs to be taught new habits and it isn't going to be easy because he has many years of having been taught this is the way you do things

I am not surprised you are tired

I would be aware it might take up to 3 weeks to teach him good sleep habits but a week should do it

You need to start easing him out of reliance on you .. so rather than lying down facing him ...turn your back on him, next night sit on his bed by his side, next night move down to the end of the bed, next night sit in a chair in the room and gradually move out of the room - no eye contact or talking at any stage

does he have a sleep comforter .. a teddy or similar?

use a sticker chart to reinforce good behaviour with a reward at the end

have you seriously never seen House of Tiny Tearaways or read Baby Whisperer .. these are well-documented techniques

you are going to get crying .. he'll be cross and upset ..but you need to stick with it and ignoe him because otherwise you'll be teaching him that it IS ok to sleep like this and it IS ok to scream to get your own way

have you got a relative or friend who can help .. because you WILL be knackered

But also remember you're doing it for HIM not for you .. it won't be good for HIM not getting a full

If you want to change things because you are not happy then fine, but it sounds as if you think you should be changing them because of his age. Lots of people co-sleep at 3 and beyond and the children grow out of it in their own time. It's a lovely thing for a child to be allowed to find security with their parent(s) at night and it is fine to continue if you want to. It would also mean you get a better night's sleep than you are at the moment! It seems a bit mad to keep waking yourself up when you sleep perfectly well with him there.

However if you feel you have really had enough (and I personaly felt my ds was ready age 3) then some gentle changes shoud work. There is a lovely gradual process of sleep training described in the No Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers, which is very child centred and never involves leaving your child to cry. What worked for us was first letting ds learn to fall asleep by himself - we would pop downstairs or into the next room constantly, calling out back in a minute, then increase the time you are away. Whenever ds called out we would go back to him straight away so he never got distressed. Over time the periods I was out of the room would lengthen and he would inevitably drift off to sleep when I was not in the room.

The next stage was asking him to only call out 3 times as Mummy was tired of going up and down stairs all the time. This again took a while to work out, but eventually got there. I found this stage very tiring as I was up and down stairs half the evening - much more of a nuisance than just lying down with him. However it worked out and he now calls out just a couple of times, or often drops straight off.

Finally we moved him to his own room. We were lucky in that we visited Ikea when we were sorting out his room and he fell in love with this mid sleeper bed they have. We bought it for him and he was desperately excited to sleep in it. We just moved the whole bedtime routine to his room and carried on going in whenever he called - including at night - but this quickly went down to only one call in the night and then none at all. I think if you can establish the rule of "stay in bed and mummy will come to you" this helps, but you will know whether this is possible for your ds.

I wouldn't advise sticker charts etc myself - he needs to want to do it himself because he feels safe without mummy, not because he will get some arbitrary reward at the end. Children learn to mistrust activities they are given stickers etc for because they sense these activities must be unpleasant if they need to be bribed to do them. Good luck whatever you decide but I do think if I was you and getting a good night's sleep when he is in the bed, I would keep things how they are for now. He won't be doing it when he is 14, that's for sure

I think that's pants Franny sorry

this child is unable to fall asleep without the presence of an adult in his own bed

and he wakes up 4 times a night

he's 3.5 and the mother is exhausted

worlds away from co-sleeping

Thanksfor the advice both of you. Should probably clarify a few things! He only wakes 4-5 times a night if I keep putting him back in his bed. Otherwise it's just the once and the occasional wake up for a trip to the loo (which he does independantly). Of course I have read baby whisperer etc. and know the techniques you are describing twiglett, putting them into practice is another matter! Have tried turning away from him but this makes him quite distressed and cross and then he takes much longer to fall aseep so I guess I have just been going for the easy life so far! Have to psych myself up for going for it properly.Sticker charts do not work with ds. He would rather be with me then get a sticker for a reward etc. Have tried them with other things and been consistant etc but he's not interested.
I like your suggestions frannyndzooey as can't bear to leave him crying. I don'tjust want to stop co-sleeping because of his age, I want him to be more independant, as he is in the rest of his life, and it would also be easier when he stays at grandparent's house or I have to go out before his bedtime and someone else puts him to bed. I think I will be able to get him to fall asleep independantly using an amalgamation of both sets of advice given, it's the whole staying in his own bed that I don't know how to teach!
Thanks for the advice, it's nice to know what other people think!

Glad we were of some use, rosie, and I am sure you can develop your own strategies and sort it out. Every situation is different which is why it's hard to give and follow prescriptive advice.

Twig, I am not quite sure what got your goat but I think you maybe need to reread rosie's first post. Most parents who co-sleep do stay with the child while they fall asleep, it is quite normal and only a problem if the parent wants to change it. Your posts suggest that rosie and her ds are doing something naughty and wrong, the way I am reading them.

Rosie, I am still unsure whether you want ds to learn to sleep in a different way because it would make life easier for you, and because you are unhappy with your current sleeping arrangements or because you feel he "ought" to be learning a different way because this way is "bad" for him. I can assure you that several of us on here have slept with our children for as long as they wanted, including staying with them while they fell asleep, and that many of us have found it helps them to be more secure and independent in the long run.

You must do what feels right for you and what works for your family, of course.

Just followed my own advice and reread your post rosie

and saw that a big part of it is for you to be more independent and have more freedom instead of having to be there at bedtime every night. This has been a huge benefit for me now that ds can go to sleep by himself so I certainly hope you can make the changed you want. I am really glad I was able to wait until he was ready to do it - it was a lovely part of our lives but I did find it an effort some nights and I imagine for you on your own it would be even harder.

Just a quick update. For the last two nights I have st next to my son's bed at bedtie rather than getting in with him, and although it has taken longer for him to fal asleep and he has protested and tried to get out of bed a few times, he has fallen asleep this way, Yay! I guess wih time he will get used to this arrangemet and I can move on to the next step! He still gets into my bed at about 5am but one step at a time, I don't mind this at the moment, as you said Frannyandzooey it is nice to co-slep and I do feel it is one of the reasons that he is such a content independant and secure little boy. So have dcided not to rush the whole staying in his own bed all night thing. I know I'd rather be hugged up to someonethan sleeping on my own!
Thanks again for the advice and support!

This is great news Rosie and I am glad you have found a way to proceed that you feel comfortable with. I found it was a long slow process to wean ds from needing my company all night, but I feel glad I went at his pace (as far as I could bear it). I feel there are benefits for both him and me, to doing it this way.

Word of warning rosie - backing out slowly worked for us until we tried to leave the room altogether. For us it turned into a game, so kept him awake for longer. He thought it was great fun to call us back, so we tried to be a bit stern, but then if we didn't go back he got horribly stressed and v.upset and we can't do the leave-em-to-scream stuff, so now are at a half way house - I sit curled up on cushions outside his room and either work on my laptop or read a book, so he can see me. If he keeps calling me back, I go back once and give him a cuddle, but then say that if he keeps calling me back I'll have to go and work in my room. He hates that, so usually stops and just lies still until he nods off. Am hoping that now we've got to this point, I can gradually start going to get things, etc and then lengthen the times away.
Our main problem is the length of time it takes him to go to sleep - he's always been lousy at sleeping, but it can take up to an hour and a half..! Good luck though - we so need our evenings, don't we?!

Rosie, I did what you are doing with both my dds, when they were both two. With dd1 it worked within a week, but with dd2 I also needed to do 'rapid return', which is where you take your ds back to bed each time he gets out. I am very against controlled crying, but this felt right and it worked. Dd2 was never left to cry, I responded to her coming to her door by picking her up and carying her to her bed, tucking her in, saying sh,sh and leaving. It took a while the first couple of nights, and even now I have the odd night when I spend half an hour lurking on our landing waiting for her to appear, but it is worth it to see her tucking herself into her little bed and saying, 'Goodnight, Mummy!' instead of falling alseep in an exhausted heap on the floor because she'd been tantruming so much about going to bed.

Do agree about co-sleeping making for a secure child, if that is what they need. It worked for dd1 but I think dd2 would have been better on her own, I made her too dependent on me when she was doing fine by herself.

Thanks for the advice and personal experiences smee and nearly three. Tonight was not so good...my ds is exhausted from waking at five thirty for last five mornings so was in a bad mood all day but then took ages to fall asleep and fought it the whole way. I had to use the rapid return method and put him back in his bed at least twenty times, I really don't understand why when they are so tired they still fight sleep! I have to admit I found it very hard tonight as am also feeling the effects of lack of sleep and it took a huge amount of control not to shout and show my annoyance! I really need my evenings to myself to unwind. Glad for the advice from others that even if it takes a long time it does eventually work. I will persevere...

Good to hear from nearlythree that it works in the end. I am so with you rosie - v. hard not to slip into anger. especially as you're by yourself and there's no one to take over. I'm fortunate in that I do have another half who's more than hands on, trouble is he's away five nights a week, so I kind of understand how hard it must be for you to be alone. Not the same I know, but I do feel for you.

Our problem's slightly different in that DS doesn't get out of bed, but screeches if we leave him. I do do going back, doing ssh and tucking him back in, but his hysteria knows no bounds once it starts and I can't just leave him either, so hence the meeting half way thing of me now sitting on the landing. At least he's calm and I get to read/ work. Still why does it take so long for him to sleep..?! I'll never understand that. Last night he was awake until 9.30 and I oh-so-wanted a glass of wine

Smee, your ds sounds so much like my dd1 was. How old is he?

He's 2+4months. Sleep has always been his thing. Colic when he was tiny and all sorts since. I think he's only slept through about five times, though am fine with that as it's lots lots better and he's getting there slowly. He co-slept when tiny, but sleeps better alone and likes his bed. He comes and crawls into our bed in the early hours and that's fine too.

Tbh, I think he's just a live wire - not hyper, just constantly busy and never sits still during the day. Rarely sleeps either, just 40 mins about twice a week for an afternoon nap. He's always happy to go to bed - he's up there by 7.30 after the same routine he's had since being tiny. He snuggles down, and now I've met him halfway and sit reading on the landing, he tells me to go there and just lies there cuddling his fox, not taking that much notice of me really. Even though he's rested and calm, it still takes at least an hour for him to drop off. Drives me mad sometimes, but I think it's just who he is. Why aren't they fitted with an off button?!

Aaaah an off button! Could you emagine the luxury?
Sounds like your ds is a lot like mine, maybe that's just boys for you, always on the move! It is hard though when they take so long to fall asleep...but I guess at least it won't last forever, before we know it they'll be teenagers and we'll be trying to get them out of bed and doing more!

I will so not mind him staying in bed...