please please help me with self settling

[whewjuice]

DD is 9 months old and still has to be rocked to sleep as 2 previous attempts to teach self settling didn't work out but the older she gets the longer it's taking to rock her. At her age it can also get back breaking as she's so heavy, I sometimes end up in tears as I can be rocking her for the best part of an hour just so she'll go to bed. She has a routine of playtime, bath, bottle then bed but she just won't have it. Unless she's fully asleep in my arms then when I put her in her cot she'll just sit then stand up, no crying or fussing just standing there babbling. How do I stop this as every sleep training says about putting them down awake but unless I physically hold her down (which I wouldn't want to do) then she just sits or stands up no matter how many times I lay her down. Sorry for the long rant but it feels like we're all sleep deprived as a family and I can't take anymore!

I totally sympathise as I had a 9 month old who had to learn to self-soothe too ... though he would just wail when I put him in the cot. I did gradual retreat, basically, so just sitting next to him with a hand on him to soothe him and then gradually (over a couple of weeks probably) moving further away from the cot. It's hard when they're that age and can sit/stand up though ... can you just sit next to her quietly while she is in the cot? Don't worry about whether she's sitting or standing ... just let her do her thing, not intervening. Wouldn't she lie down herself eventually, when she's really had enough, or when she starts to cry, in which case she might accept you lying down? You might be sitting there a really really long time - sometimes those first nights sitting by the cot you're there for a couple of hours - but in the end if you stick it out they usually go off on their own, eventually ...

just reading that again and that last bit should read 'she might accept you lying HER down'! Not suggesting you start lying down too

Sending my best wishes to you. I'm going through similar altho dd is only 6.5 months. I have a couple of questions too:
How can I be sure she's not crying because something is wrong? Have checked all the usual nappy, feed etc but how do I know she definitely doesn't have wind/reflux pain? She'll stop crying if you pick her up but as soon as she's laid flat in the cot she'll be in tears. My mum and hv keep telling me there's nothing wrong with her but how can they be so certain?

She rolls onto all fours but can't easily get onto her back again. Whenever I've tried to settle her in cot or left her to cry she gets onto her front so I'm not sure if I should leave her or keep turning her back? If I leave her I've never seen her just lie down and go to sleep but if keep going in and moving her she cries even more...

Thanks RooTwo, I do usually stay next to the cot patting or whatever but that just seems to make her think I'll pick her up, maybe if I just sit there like you say she will get bored? Rachel have you ever tried laying her at an angle? I know it's more difficult in a cot but when DD was in a moses basket we had to prop up the stand so her head was higher then her body so she wasn't flat, she had tummy troubles and it's the only way she would lay without crying? If that doesn't work I'd say it's probably more she just doesn't like being put down?

Hi thanks yes we have her cot at an angle hoping it would help but it doesn't seem to. Sometimes I manage to get her into it on her side but a soon as she moves and rolls over it wakes her up. You're probably right that she doesn't like being put down. I think we have a high needs baby who is super sensitive. She becomes wired at sleep times instead of winding down. My husband and I are usually very calm people so I don't think how we are with her is making her more hyperactive

Rachel she sounds normal. My baby didn't like being put in her cot either at 6m. Or 7m for that matter. It did quite rapidly change and she is much better now (9m)

Have you read the No Cry Sleep Solution? Some helpful ideas in there. With my baby I realised that the wired-at-bedtime thing corresponded with her being over tired, and she was usually a bit easier to get down if I caught her earlier.

Thanks quodlibet. Today I have felt so low through lack of sleep :( I know I'm not the only one with a baby like this but when you're stuck at home coz you're too tired to go anywhere you get quite lonely!
My dd is always overtired but I don't know how to catch her at the right time. I've tried doing naps and bedtime earlier (before I think she's overtired) but it always took even longer to get her to sleep. She'd cry just as much too. If I do the bedtime any earlier she'll be waking up from one nap and straight into the bedtime routine!

Put her in the cot, turn light off and walk out? If she's not crying she is fine. Leave her to stand, walk, babble etc. Have you ever tried this? How do you know she won't self settle if you don't try just leaving her to get on with it? As long as she is not hysterical I would just leave her. It's bedtime and you have adult things you need to d in the evening. It is ok to do this. Despite what some of the more fervent voices on MN will tell you. This does not make you a bad mum!!!

Sleepy, you don't HAVE to do CC. I think I posted in the same state of despair at about the same age (my baby was also either OFF or ON with no drowsy setting, and I was stuck with feeding her to sleep and waking many times a night). However, in a matter of weeks things shifted quite a bit, and now at 9m (while it's not perfect and we still have bad patches) she can self settle, she will be put down awake and on the edge of sleep and roll over happily and snooze, she can calmly get off to sleep for a nap in a number of ways/situations. We didn't do anything drastic, it just evolved. Personally I feel like continuing to respond to your baby every time without fail builds the confidence in them that lets them begin to be confident to be and to sleep alone.

We used a sleep consultant and to help with this issue she said to warm the cot with a hot water Bottle so she was going down from warm arms to warm bed, drowsy not asleep. I then had to sit next to the cots and provide comfort, pat,
Sshush, sing. Took 60 minutes the first night and it took 3
Nights before she would go down without any protest. Obviously take the hot water bottle out as soon as you put your baby in the cot.
Have a look at her page- helpful stuff and you could probably do it alone but I needed the support as was at my wits end! Www.sleepbabies.co.uk
Good Luck

If you know your baby can self settle then recreckon's your routine that needs some adjusting to make sure he is tired enough by bedtime. Can you let us know when naps are?

Ah ok. I feel your pain. I am on dc2 and at 3 months it is a battle to work out when he needs sleep (undertired and he goes to sleep and wakes 20mins later, overtired and he takes ages to fall asleep and wakes in a state 40mins later).

At 9 months your dc shpuld probably be able to stick to actual times rather than time between sleeps so you can make it fit with you. At 9 months dd did a nap at about 9.15 after waking at 7.
Woke her up at 10am. Did an activity/playgroup etc then would have lunch and long nap at 12.30. No longer than two hours.

She had dropped her later afternoon nap by that age.

Bath at 6, in bed by 6.45.

It took perseverance!

Sticking to actual times really helped though and also made it easier to deal with hideous early wakings etc...you just push the morning nap closer to 9.30 if they start waking earlier in the morning.

A lot of people swear by no naps after 3pm by the 9 month mark. If you are doing the school run and they nod off for ten mins though you could move bathtime back by ten mins.
Does that help?

Ps. You can either move to this routine all at once or gradually eg start with the morning nap and sort that out then move to the lunchtime nap etc...

Watching with interest (and desperation!).
Ds3 is 13 months and the same, but either rocked or fed to sleep. He is waking 10am, 2am and 4am every night. I'm exhausted but really don't want to do controlled crying.
I've just started back at work and need some sleep in order to do my job.
DH is happy to settle him, which he does most of the time. I thought the retreat method was supposed to take weeks? Maybe we need to do that ...

Hmmm, does he wake at a considtent time every morning? I think most aim for a 7pm bedtime and 7am wake up. So I guess make sure he is up by 7am even if he is normally allowed to lie in (a lot of people say to expose your baby to sunlight as soon as they wake as this helps regulate their body clock. He should be sleepy by 9.15 or 9.30 at the latest. Does he fall asleep in a buggy? If so the gentle way to introduce a routine would be take him for a walk every day at 9.15 for a couple of weeks. Then wake him at 10am and go from there? Aim for lunch nap at 12/12.30. Again you can do the same and try to get a buggy nap fpr a few weeks to regulate him.
Are you willing to do any sleep training? If so I would start on bedtime routines (easier for them to fall asleep at night than for day naps). Then roll out to naptimes, although at 7months your ds may be ready to self settle for both quite easily.

Btw, I am typing this while trying to get ds to nap for more than 20mins so totally get where uou are coming from!!!