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dd, 3 weeks, who just doesnt sleep!! any advice welcome!

21 replies

olivo · 18/09/2006 19:15

my dd is 3 weeks old today and she barely sleeps during the day. she will go from about 10pm waking every 3 hrs or so for a feed during the night till about 8 am but then only snatches 20 mins or so at a time during the day. the only time she will sleep longer is if wew are in the car. she cries lots in the day and will not setlle in her bouncy chair, swing and sometimes even when being held. i am shattered and cant seem to get any chance to catch up on sleep during the day.

does anyone have any advice?
TIA

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Mercy · 18/09/2006 19:20

Hate to say it but this totally normal in many newborn babies. It can take quite a few more weeks (even months - in my dd's case) for babies to get in to any kind of regular sleeping pattern.

Does she feed ok, as far as you can tell?

olivo · 18/09/2006 19:26

i think so. she seems quite greedy, feeding for up to an hour ( my hv told me i might be overfeeding but MN wisdom told me there is no such thing!) about every 3 to 4 hours and is putting on weight. she was in scbu for the first week and even though she is (i hope!) fine now, its made me really anxious about everything.

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loujay · 18/09/2006 19:31

Do you think there would be any mileage in taking your DD to a cranial osteopath??
Myself and many of my friend took our kid to see one as they can sort out "birth trauma" on babies heads, even if the birth has been great the pressure on their little heads can make them uncomfortable and hard to settle.
Where abouts are you??

olivo · 18/09/2006 19:32

i'm so glad you've said that loujay - i have booked an appt for her with a cranio sacral therapsit (similar i think?) for thursday. do you think it'll help?

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hermykne · 18/09/2006 19:34

olivo would u not feed every 2hrs, esp if she is breastfeed?

popeye123 · 18/09/2006 19:36

Hi Olivio,
Are you breast or bottle feeding?
My DD was also a poor daytime sleeper and I know how much it can get you down.
There are so many reasons why you could be having problems - firstly I'd say make sure she's well fed (I'll write more on this if you are breastfeeding) and secondly don't try too hard. Things can spiral out of control if you are chopping and changing between too many props (bouncy chair, swing etc). Make sure the atmosphere is relaxed rather than having a TV blaring although some noise is good so she learns diff between night and day - maybe a soft radio. Don't get hung up on routines and times yet - get to know her and try to pick up on her cues i.e. rubbing eyes, looking from side to side, then try to put her somewhere to sleep fairly soon before she gets over tired. The crying lots could be over tiredness, hunger or wind.

If all else fails and you are feeling desperate, try going for a walk with the pram (even better get someone else to take her). Ideally just go round the corner, not too far away (round and around if needs be), so as soon as she drops off you aren't too far from home. Get home, leave her in her pram if you can and then you just have a rest. 30 mins sleep here or there might not make much diff but 30 mins sitting down just trying to chill out might.

Just try to look at this as if she's got jet lag, it might take a little while for her to adjust but adjust she will. Don't make things worse by worrying this is the way it will always be, it won't.

Well done, on the night time. Thats a pretty good start so you're getting something right!

loujay · 18/09/2006 19:36

Absolutely!!
My friends DD cried non stop for the first 6 weeks of her life, they had no sleep and she would only sleep when being rocked............their DD then fell asleep in the osteopaths arms whilst being treated and has not looked back since.
The whole thing is astounding as it looks as if they are doing bugger all but the effects are fantastic, let me know hoe you get on.

olivo · 18/09/2006 19:46

i am breast feeding. i do offer her the breast more often but she will not always take it or she takes it for a minute and then falls asleep but wakes up again as soon as i try and move her or she has that jerk reaction thing.

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hermykne · 18/09/2006 20:41

olivo its probably normal, and if she does off in your arms and wakes after 20 mins thats normal too.
3 weeks is early days and you will see her pattern change and her sleeping a wee bit longer.
have you got good breastfeeding support? and do you go off for walks like popeye mentions?

sometimes thats good for you as well as baby .

Mercy · 18/09/2006 20:54

Agree Popeye's post (would have written something similar but had to put kids to bed!)

Swaddling also helped my dd with the startle reflex (the jerk reaction thing!)

Good luck.

morningpaper · 18/09/2006 20:55

Bad luck - both of mine were the same. Up from 7am until 10ish with just 20 minutes in the day. It's so tiring. My second one is 12 months and still doesn't nap for any longer than that during the day. I think it's just bad luck.

mummyplonk · 18/09/2006 20:56

Loujay, another big fan of Cranial Osteopathy here, DS1 used to cry whilst he was sleeping, and wanted to use me as a human dummy all the time, as a result he would overfeed and be very sickly (have you tried a dummy? ((will probably be shot in flames for that one))) but he did used to fall asleep for hours after a Cranial session. The birth can be really traumatic for some babies esp if she was forceps/ventouse I was advised. It will get better, hang in there.

olivo · 18/09/2006 22:54

i have tried a dummy (we've now been trying to settle her for the last 2 hours and tried everything, including being the human dummy but like you, she's just puked the extra back up!!) and we've tried the swaddling again, she really doesnt seem to like it and screams.

she won't even fall asleep in our arms at the moment. i see a midnight walk coming on! the trouble with the walks is that she sometimes sleeps while we are out but almost always wakes as soon as we come back home.

am really praying that the cranio sacral works - her delivery was a bit traumatic, the ventouse didnt work and i had to have an emergency c-section, but she was born floppy and not breathing and had to be resuscitated etc so maybe that is all still in her mind.

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mummyplonk · 18/09/2006 23:00

If you are still there Olivo try the 3 magic S's together. (cant remember what book) but it really works,

Load SSSHHHH'ing in her ear (womb sound)
Lie her accross your tummy and swing quite forcefully
Smack her bottom rythmically (heartbeat)

HTH, good luck. x

olivo · 18/09/2006 23:38

thanks mummyplonk. am absolutely at my wits end now! will give it a try!

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Gillian76 · 18/09/2006 23:42

Co sleeping?

I did the shhhhhhhing thing quite without prompting. Glad to see there's some logic to back up why it worked so beautifully!

PinkTulips · 19/09/2006 14:29

olivo, prob a silly question but could she be too hot? youn say she'll fall asleep outside but wake up in the house.....maybe shes over heated?

theres also the possibility shes over stimulated and unable to settle because of it. instead of the bouncers and swings try putting her down in a quiet room with no distractions well before you actually think she tired.

other than that try and ride it out.... some baies are just more unsettled than others unfortuanately but it will ease down over the coming weeks and months, shes only 3 weeks, thats very young yet

popeye123 · 19/09/2006 20:19

Crikey Olivo - what a birth, you poor things. In that case, a trip to see the Osteo gets my vote. Friends of mine who had similar experiences tried this and were basically told that their baby was probably having bad headaches as a result and/or digestion problems. These things will settle down in due course but you may not want to wait. My gut instinct, if this has something to do with your problems, is (while you are waiting for an appt.) to make the house as calm and quiet as possible ALL DAY. Avoid visitors, turn off the TV, keep voices low, just have soft must (Classic FM!) in the background and keep bright lights to a minimum - just imagine how you'd feel if you had a migraine? Thats just my opinion - no expert.

..and you say you're breastfeeding. Well done! Can't believe you even started let alone managed to carry on with everything you've been going through. I bet you are doubting yourself as a Mum at the moment - DON'T - there's nothing obvious that you are doing wrong, quite the opposite - you are doing SO much right by breast feeding. Try to take some comfort in that.

..back to my comment the other day when I said to ensure your DD was well fed. Breast fed babies can fool you quite easily to start off with. Breast milk is like a drug, baby takes a hit and zonks out fooling you into thinking they are full...then they sober up 20 mins later, remember they are still hungry, start crying and you are thinking, "..but I just fed you?!?!?". The trick is to try to keep them "with it" until they really are full. Stroke their hair or face maybe put them over your sholder and wind them...just to stir them, and then put them back to the same breast again. If they drift off again, repeat the exercise but then maybe try the other breast, stiring them again if needs be. Only then would I be happy they really were full. I'm not suggesting you irritate baby..just gently stir them. Another problem can sometimes be that you think they have finished and then next feed (even if its 30 mins later) you put them to the other breast. If first feed was pretty short then there could be a problem with them getting too much foremilk, this is empty calories and will mean they won't sleep well and maybe even have a tummy ache (in my experience). No one should suggest a time limit for each breast, this will vary for each person. Try to feed on one side until you think its empty or until you think baby is telling you it is - can't tell you exactly what to look out for here, I didn't work this out until my DD was alot older! I think she just used to go on and come off again quite quickly, I'd switch sides and off she'd go. I know people who only ever feed on one side so if in doubt, don't switch.
You could find this extra faffing around lengthens feeds - anything up to an hour in these early days. Thats normal. Think of it as Mother Natures way of forcing you to sit down and rest, just go with it, it won't last forever.

Another thing to concentrate on is winding your baby. Make sure you are doing it correctly (I was told make firm, circular strokes on the back in a clock wise direction). Again, get help on what to look out for - if baby lifts her legs up when she's lying down crying then that could be a sign , also if she crys as soon as she's put down - although that could also be because she was having a lovely cuddle. Speak to your HV if in doubt and ask for tips on baby massage which can help. Baby massage might also generally calm her down and also give you two some nice quality time together in between the screaming.

....and I know this contradicts what I said earlier, but sometimes a bit of white noise helps (mimics the womb). I've recently had a CD of a cat purring on all night to calm my DD - not sure it helped her but I slept really well

Sorry to write such a war and peace - unfortunately I have too good a memory and can quite clearly remember those first few mental weeks. Fingers crossed for a better day tomorrow x

olivo · 19/09/2006 21:14

thank you so much for your advice everyone, especially you popeye. have taken all your comments on board and will be trying to put them into practice. last night was a nightmare, i only got 4 1/2 hours sleep and she has barely slept today, except after being in the car.

hopefully not a similar night tonight, dh had to resport to putting her in the car at midnight!!

thanks again.

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olivo · 21/09/2006 17:57

just wanted to say thanks again for the advice, some of it seems to be working and dd is getting a bit more sleep. have been for the cst today - she has started to respond to it and we have been recommended to take her to a chiropractor as well as going back to see her. i feel much more calm now that i feel we are doing something to help.
thanks again!

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scattercushion · 22/09/2006 18:33

Poor you... I know exactly how that feels as my baby was exactly the same until about three weeks ago - she's now 10 weeks and much calmer. So first I'd say that things WILL improve. But in the meantime, try everything - Baby Bliss book, shush-patting technique from Baby Whisperer book, baby massage, cranial osteopathy, they all helped a bit for us. BUT the main thing that was a godsend was my dad coming to visit once a week and taking her out in her pushchair for two hours, twice a day. I used to just sleep. If you can find someone, anyone, to do this for you it can really help - all they need to do is walk the streets/around the park, and persuade them to do it by saying they'll go to heaven! I used to wish the week away until my dad came. All the way on the train from Leamington Spa to London just for a daytrip - he is an angel!

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