Am I doing the right thing?

[mrsmugoo]

DS is 16 weeks and has always been a crap sleeper. When he was a newborn everyone told me to just do whatever I needed to do to get through the day/night and that you can't "spoil" a tiny baby or create rods for your back. So I breastfed and rocked to sleep, allowed him to sleep in my arms very time in the day (as he'd immediately wake on transfer) and co-slept at night.

Somewhere along the line the not making rods for my back have morphed into definitely making rods for my own back!

I had to go cold turkey on the napping in arms about 2 weeks ago as I was finding his 4/5 x 40 minute catnaps a day draped over me to be too restrictive for everyday life - I could barely leave the house or have a visitor. So I started to transfer him to his bouncer instead as I could use the motion to gently rock him off to sleep if the transfer woke him.

I've finally called time on the co-sleeping as well this week as he's getting so big he takes up half the bed and DH and I are huddled onto one half of the bed whilst his lordship sleeps spread eagled on the other. It's just too hot for that and with him waking all night I at least want to be comfortable when I do have the chance for a bit of sleep.

So I've made the decision that he needs to sleep in his cot for both day and night sleeps now and I'll do whatever it takes to get him in there. The issue I have is that his cot has fixed sides and even on the highest setting I can't really transfer him awake so we're having to learn to go down drowsy and settle himself off to sleep.

I've spent the past few days trying my own version of PUPD with varying degrees of success. Last night I put him down drowsy and of course his eyes pinged open as soon as he touched the mattress but I stayed with him sitting down by the cot with my hand on his tummy and after literally an hour of flailing around he found his fingers and sucked himself off to sleep - I could have cried with pride. Now I know he can self soothe it's given me the confidence to properly get this sleep issue licked.

This mornings first nap turned out to be an hour and a half battle. First I tried leaving him again to drop off on his own but he wasn't, so I picked him up and rocked him and bit but it seemed to be making him more and more cross each time I packed him up and tried to soothe him so in the end all I could do was leave him to cry while I sat next to him so he wouldn't feel abandoned. It wasn't a hysterical cry, more a frustrated one but I waited it out and sure enough eventually he found his fingers and settled himself off to sleep.

I now feel awful! I never thought I'd ever leave my baby to cry, especially at only 16 weeks but I just can't seem to think of what else to do?

Am I doing the right thing? Am I an awful Mother? How would you tackle this?

I think you're doing well! Ds was similar-would only co sleep/sleep in arms as a newborn.

At around three/four months I would put him in the cot and sit beside it until he fell asleep. If he got upset I would stroke his tummy.

Naps were more tricky. He stopped sleeping my arms at 12 weeks but wouldn't self settle in the cot until around 20 weeks. I used to rock him in the pram indoors. Also a lot of car/pram naps while I walked. Ds also has that frustrated cry as well. ....I think its when he's tired but can't figure out how to get to sleep. Pick up and put down doesn't work with him either, I think its too stimulating for him. I've also let ds whinge/grizzle himself to sleep. I don't feel great doing it, but he grizzles just as much when I'm holding him, and he goes to sleep a lot quicker in the cot.

Sorry I'm not sure I'm much help! Ds is 8 months and naps are still trickier than night time sleep. I don't believe that leaving a baby to cry for a few minutes makes anyone an awful mother!

No thank you for your reply! In my circle of Mum friends (none of whom have such an appalling sleeper as mine I hasten to add) it seems to be the prevailing attitude that any kind of sleep training is somehow cheating as wakeful babies are just normal and that breastfeeding and rocking are just what your baby needs, as if to say I'm being selfish or going against my baby's basic needs. They will say things like "your baby is so tiny, everything's a phase, he just wants to be close to you etc..." I feel so crap at having to make him cry I just don't know what else to do to start getting a bit more sleep? Most of them have babies that nap well so they can nap in the day and catch up on rest. The ones that are ff sleep 7 hours straight by now and I just don't think they realise what it's like to still be only sleeping max 2 hour stretches at 4 months in.

I know 4 months is still very tiny but I read threads on here from Mums that still feed their toddlers to sleep and it terrifies me! I need to go back to work in October and he will need to have naps without me/boob. Plus I wouldn't mind the odd evening out - I've been going to bed with the baby by 9 ever since birth. I haven't had one single evening with my husband in 4 months.

I do generally do one nap a day in the pushchair - I've been walking miles to get him to sleep!

My DD was exactly the same, would never be left alone, and I couldn't leave her to cry at all - didn't feel right and even if I left her for 2 minutes she'd make herself sick. Anyway, we figured it out in the end - a combination of things really - we used acupressure and baby massage to get her into a deep sleep. Also Bach flower remedies for separation anxiety, and sleep inducing foods when she was weaned. Here's our story if you're interested. I did 15 months on only 2 hours stretch of sleep a night so know how you feel - I was at breaking point, all friends babies were sleeping much better than mine. Good luck!!
mydaughterwontsleep.com/about/

Oh hun, I feel your pain. My 23weeker is currently asleep on my shoulder after waking from a cot nap of 1.5hrs!! He still wakes a lot at night too. However, around 16weeks I decided to do a bedtime routine of bath, feed, story, bed. That buys me 3-5hrs with dh and he seems happier. Still wakes every 2/3 hrs after first wake up but its a start.

Our sleep HV won't touch an under 6monther and all the books state the same for most techniques.

Wrt naps, I started to plan one nap in the cot a day then moved to all when at home but all are flexible.

I feel I don't have enough time on ml to battle longer than 15mins for sleeping and lo seems to agree.

Those are my thoughts and hints hth

BTW, everyone else's baby's sleep better than your own to your face but I sadistically enjoy fear this isn't always the case!!

He's had a set bedtime/routine of bath, pjs, feed, sleep since 8 weeks because I was so exhausted with him not settling for the night until gone 11 sometimes later. It doesn't buy me an evening though as if I don't go to bed when he does I miss out in my only opportunity of a full couple of hours sleep from 8-10 as he's then up at 12, 2, 4 etc and I'm lucky to grab an hour between wakings.

I did think maybe I'd tackle naps one at a time but actually I think it's just prolonging the agony and he might as well learn that cots are for sleeping!

All of my friends with babies between 10 and 25 weeks are all at least getting one 4-5 hour stretch in at the start of the night now. I think I could cope a bit better if I could at least get one 3 hour chunk of sleep at night but this is rare.

mrsmugoo I've been battling similar issues to you, I did have a good night sleeper till the 4 month sleep regression kicked in, then I fed to sleep everytime she woke and I think she started waking for a feed. As you know what it's like yourself if you usually eat at a certain time then you get hungry when that time comes around. So I decided this a couple of nights ago that I wasn't feeding in the night. She was feeding at least at 11/12, 3 and 5 which doesn't seem a lot, but she's nearly 6 months and previously slept 7-7 no feeds!I have managed successfully 2 nights this week to have no night feeds. I have introduced a dummy and I sit and give her a cuddle as she watches the light show from her night light and she drops back off. This takes a significant length of time compared to feeding, but I'm hoping if I can get her used to not feeding at night then maybe she will sleep through again. She never never self settles, not once in 6 months has she fallen asleep in her cot. I have given up on that for the moment.

Maybe you could try reducing the feeds? Maybe try cutting one out for a few days then another? I know it means you will have less sleep for a while as it's hard, but I'm thinking it's worth it in the long run? Maybe if you can psyche yourself up you could manage. Also, try really filling baby up during the day, I offer an extra feed in the evening, about 5-5.30 then a bedtime feed about 7.

Oh and I was also worried about what would happen when I go back to work, but I was chatting to a friend with a 3 year old that had the same issues. Cat napper and always fed to sleep and she said when her dd was with her gran she would just pop up on her knee and fall asleep for a couple of hours and the sleep was no problem, however, at home with mum she would catnap and need bf!! Just shows they're wee rascals sometimes!!

I don't think I could feed anymore as he already feeds fully on demand and feeds quite frequently. I did try feeding him just before the bath as well as after but it made no difference to his sleep.

I've tried settling without boob at night and it's a total nightmare but you're right, I may have to go down that route for long term gain. He's always been a night feeder so I don't think I could cut it out but I could say no feeds til 12/1am?

My dd is the same, still exclusively bf and on demand. She did used to sleep all night and cut out the feeds herself without me really doing much. Then it all went wrong around 4 months, but I'm trying to look at how she originally stopped feeds and go from there.

So, for example feeds at 7, 11, 2, 5 & 7, my girl first dropped 2, then 5, then 11, so that's what I'm trying to recreate. I would suggest trying anything you can to get baby to sleep when he wakes around 2, I introduced a dummy a few weeks ago, it took a while, but now she will settle with a cuddle and dummy. Then all going well he might stop waking for that feed, then I would try and gently push the 5 feed later, eventually turning it into first feed of the day, probably 7 is a little optimistic, but if you're getting more sleep then getting up at 6 isn't so bad.

I would also try dream feeding, as it's so much more pleasant for you to feed at 10 or 11 and then getting a few hours sleep than knowing you are going to put your head on the pillow and then get woken an hour later. Then cut out the dream feed later down the line.

I hope that helps, I'm just going by how dd naturally have up the feeds herself, also if he wakes and isn't crying leave him for a wee while. I did this once and that's how I cut out the 5 feed as she just dozed on and off till 6, then eventually started waking at 6.

I'm hoping my own advice helps me, I've had a couple of long nights. I've managed no feeds, but dd is constipated (apparently bf babies don't get constipated, but this is not the case) so she has been awake a lot a bit sore. Fingers crossed for a better night tonight!!

Thanks for your advice spoony. He's just gone down for the night so I will take your advice and see if I can getaway without feeding when he wakes around 2ish.

I've had a good day with naps today, he's really settling with his thumb/fingers now so hopefully I can get him to self settle in the night without the boob. We'll see!

Also, I ised to jump around the room like a crazy lady rocking dd to sleep as nothing gentle worked (aside from feeding) but I have now started sitting on a nursing chair that rocks, facing dd towards her night light and she likes to watch it. She eventually drifts off. (I would highly recommend paboba dream theatre.) Also, if you don't have a nursing chair, try to get a second hand one somewhere, I only got given it about a month ago and it is a total saviour!! More for cuddles than actual nursing, but it just really helps in the middle of the night!

I don't know if this is any help or not but DD was awake every hour at 4 months. I just fed and fed and fed. It gradually got better and by 9 months she was eating enough solids to keep her going until 3/4am ish.

I never did any night weaning, I am rubbish in the middle of the night and go straight for the easy option. Just wanted to reassure you it can get better eventually even if you feel like you're being really soft!

Thanks trilbydoll. Can your baby self sooth or does she need help everytime she wakes? Obviously ideally I'd like dd to sleep through, but if I'm up anyway I don't mind feeding her. I'm just trying to stop feeding her in case I'm causing her to wake cos I've been feeding her to help her sleep and it's making her expect milk in the middle of the night, if you know what I mean?? I'll see how it goes over the next week or so, but introducing a dummy is probably just causing another problem for later, argh!!