All sleep training techniques failing! Please help.

[alex344]

I have just wept for 10 minutes solid myself after my DS (9months) has cried for 1 hour 25 minutes, since I started trying to put him down. And when I say cried I actually mean red-faced panic attack screamed!

I feel like I've read so much and the techniques are making it worse.

I have tried:

1. Standing in the room pottering quietly so he just knows I'm there but not interacting with him - (Fine at first sits or stands quietly watching me but eventually cries)

1. Sitting across the room in the rocking chair but not interacting with him - (He stands in cot shouting loudly at me, throws his dummy across the room and then gives up and screams if I don't move)

1. Trying to keep him laying down by placing my hand on his chest to stop him rolling over and then standing. (this makes him furious)

1. Sitting next to the cot quietly - (He just puts his arms through and tries to grab me)

1. When he is quiet and relaxed I say goodnight softly and let him see me leave the room, as I've read you shouldn't just creep out as this makes separation anxiety worse. - (leaving the room gets the worse reaction of all, he literally seems to have a panic attack. Even as I take one step out, it's full throttle screaming)

1. Let him cry for 5minutes or 10minutes spells then go back in and try to comfort. - (his crying just gets worse and worse and he gets more and more panicked and even holds his breath or chokes which is extremely distressing)

Once the screaming starts he is too upset to calm down. Even once I give up the techniques (usually after 30mins/40mins or so when I can't bare to hear him that upset anymore) and pick him up, or hold his hand or talk to him he is too far gone to recover properly and the crying continues.

Please any advice really appreciated. Any other techniques? Anyone got a very spirited child that the techniques just wouldn't ever work for? How long does separation anxiety last? Is it really that terrible to completely give up and get him to sleep by lying in our bed next to him until he drifts off and then transferring him to his cot? Will doing this mean he never learns to self settle?

Thank-you x

OP you may find the following website helpful.

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201302/normal-infant-sleep-part-2-0

I had a hard time thinking that my DS SHOULD be sleeping through by now but there is a lot of research to say that this is quite normal. You are NOT doing anything wrong.

Once I realised this I just went with the flow a lot more. I understand your frustration though - I have to get to work in the morning and it's not fun on so little sleep!

Could it be that all the swapping and changing is making it harder?? How long have you tried each technique for? I'd be tempted to pick one and stick with it for at least a couple of weeks. Also it sounds like he is very stressed with separation anxiety at the moment so maybe try and rebuild some bridges at bedtime by go back to whatever works for him and then starting over.

I agree with sticking to one method, it's just working out what that one is You could trawl the internet looking for solutions like I have, and get very disheartened when they fail to work. It takes time and someone to give you support and direction.

I'm in the same position with my 11month old OP, but luckily I found a sleep clinic run by my local children's centre, maybe you could see if your local or surrounding area has one?
I have started one to one sessions with an early years specialist, she evaluates babys day, naps, food and general self. She has given me some direction and having someone to feedback to, someone 'on the outside' is really helping me at least!
We have had small but significant changes already (in just one week), she's far from being a great sleeper but it's encouraging and gives you just that little bit more resolve to keep going knowing that there has been even a little shift.

I hope you can get something like this too. Also maybe try your HV?

And no one really wants to 'ignore' or upset their baby, but after months of hellish nights something's got to give.
Be a little more sympathetic to the person asking for help eh?!

Good advice from FarToGo there. (I would give my eye teeth for a local sleep clinic!)

I didn't know local sleep clinics existed. HV advice and got was ear plugs and CIO. I must have the least progressive PCT in the country.

It is absolutely not terrible to cuddle him or cosleep. It's a lovely thing to do. I have never done any sleep 'training'. I coslept when he was little, then progressed to transferring him sleeping to cot, now to putting him in cot asleep and waiting till he falls asleep. I've never left him to cry, avoided eye contact, or any of these processes that go against my instincts. He self settles, he goes to sleep happily at nursery just like the others. It doesn't need to be so complex, just do what feels right, and what works for you and your baby. That might not be the same as what feels right for me, but your posts suggest its also not the processes you've been (feeling you have to?) trying. They'll all get there in their own time when they're ready, in their own unique way.

I'd also recommend having a look at the ISIS website or similar about what to expect with babies' normal sleep. Might set your mind at rest that what you're experiencing is normal and doesn't need 'fixing'.

Thank-you so much for all of the support. There are some helpful pointers here for me and some really compassionate, thoughtful responses. Quite honestly just knowing other people are going through something similar is a form of support as it can make you feel like a totally failure at times. I will definitely look into some sleep support, thank-you FarToGo. After researching I think my local NCT may be helpful and have a more sensitive approach with this as my HV actually just blankly suggested I needed to let him cry it out, which is one of the reasons I tried any controlled crying it at all.

At 4 months he went though a big sleep regression waking up to 16! (really!) times a night. I hugged, comforted and co-slept through that and everyone around me told me I'd done it all wrong and that's why he's a bad sleeper. So this time that things got really bad, last few weeks, I felt I had to listen and try some sleep training techniques as I want him to be healthy and rested.

I am really hurt by the few people on here who seem to think I am evil for even trying it. I came here for support, open to suggestions and help. I especially object to being told I am a mother '24hours a day not just during the day'. It is cruel and unkind comments like that that can push vulnerable people over the edge, luckily I have a lot of love in my life so will not let you worry me further.

It is not just a case of hug him and it'll all be fine. Maybe you have placid babies that just snuggle down in your lap but my DS doesn't want to be hugged when tired lately, often angrily pushing me away, desperately trying to get down on the floor to continue his new skill of crawling despite being so dog tired he can barely manage it. I love that he is fiery, determined, eager, active and strong actually, I just desperately want to help him overcome some of these traits at bedtime as they stop him sleeping despite being exhausted.

Please let's all use mumsnet as the arena for valued support and exchange of ideas that it's meant to be, and not as a place to belittle and judge. Thanks again to all of you that have either supported and suggested things kindly. I feel stronger and more confident today because of you. Xx

Beautifully put Alex. I'm glad you feel better for having posted, it's the way it should be. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do next x

Do we have the same child Alex?! The strong will, determination and sheer bloody stubbornness all sound the same!
I'm glad you have taken the positives from the replies, and hopefully your local NCT will help you.
I'm in a south London borough, I had to wait 3 weeks for the first appointment, she's very oversubscribed apparently but took pity on me because I sounded so frazzled! She will not entertain any form of leaving to cry, she advocates a gentle behaviour modifying approach which will take time but I will see her every week now until it's resolved. Like yours, my girl can wake anything from 2-20 times a night (I got some incredulous looks from other mums but its true!) and doesn't go to sleep or nap well either.... Like I said, it's small steps at first but it seems to be working - in a week I have stopped BF to sleep and she now takes a bottle which is actually a MASSIVE thing!
My husband has been integral to this and I could not have done it without him.

Hang in there, you will get through it

good luck Alex I'm glad you've not let some posts get you down. he will be fine, and you both need sleep! x

Hi Alex Good luck with the sleep support - it makes me mad that the only advice you ever get from HV's is CIO - they are all stuck in a timewarp! Hope you find a method that suits you and your baby.

I hope my posts didn't come across as judgemental - it wasn't my intention. I have been in your shoes although DS sounds less strong willed than yours!! In the end I couldn't stomach sleep training and knowing that these patterns are normal helped me feel less like a failure.