What happens to a baby who doesn't nap in the day?

[marsup]

I've tried the 'window of opportunity' of 1-2 hours of waking (plus black-out curtains, white noise, dummy, swaddling) and my baby doesn't want to nap anywhere except in his wilkinet papouse. Has anyone tried the opposite technique - exhaustion? what happens if we just don't take him out in the wilinet one day and let him stay up, only put him down when he cries? will he eventually drop off and learn how to? nb he is only 12 wks old and I know he needs naps. Please don't accuse me of mistreatment without knowing that I have tried rocking him to sleep and this no longer works unless I do increasingly violent movements. I do stay in his room stroking his head to try to get him to sleep. Anyway I guess someone will accuse me of mistreatment in any case - but does anyone know what happens to a baby who doesn't sleep at all in the daytime?

PS I no longer need to do the rocking back to sleep thing, but that's how I established the nap.

Hi marsup, have to agree with an earlier comment by senoraP, have you tried settling him on his tummy? From 2-4months I would rock/feed ds to sleep and then gently transfer him to the cot and put him on his tummy. He slept soooooo much better that way. I would only do this for daytime naps when I could really hear the monitor. From 4mo it was a mixture of back/tummy depending on the situation and now at 9mo as soon as I leave the room (nap or nighttime) he rolls over and continues to sleep on his tummy. It may be worth a try, but you have to be happy with the decision yourself.

BTW, you are doing a great job, things will eventually change, you will see that light at the end of the tunnel. It's so easy to get down about things especially as we haven't been given a manual or training on doing the most important job in the world. Hang in there

marsup, if I were you I think I would take a break from trying to get your ds to nap in his cot for a while. Constantly fighting with a baby about sleep is so difficult and demoralising, I think it can really help to call a truce even if you haven't 'fixed' all the problems. If he's sleeping reasonably OK at night now, and you can get him to nap in his wilkinet, do that for a while. The weather's getting nicer--have some good long walks with him. Then maybe try leaving him to cry at nap-time in a couple of weeks when you've had a nice time with your ds for a while and you're feeling stronger. You could resolve to be 'tough' for a few days, but with the proviso that if it isn't working you can always go back to what works.

I know the 'baby experts' always stress the importance of consistency, but you've also got to preserve yourself and your relationship with your babe. Napping on the move is really common and not the worst thing in the world. My dd1 basically never napped except in her buggy or in a car after about 3 months. (Except at nursery--they somehow managed to get her to sleep.) I don't think it was great for her, but it wasn't terrible either.

regular drives, swing, feeding I tried them all - dd was like this at 12 weeks but now at 10 months she sleeps for 2 hours in the middle of the day, so it really can get better - and btw I don't think feeding to sleep is naughty -

marsup - how are things?

We went through this too Marsup (despite GF), keep going with the wilinet or whatever - and every now and then try putting bub in his bed - eventually it will take.

Some progress on the nap front: DS does now sleep for half-hour stretches in his basket sometimes, but usually only when it is my mother who has put him down! with me he manages 10 minutes sometimes. However in my more confident moments I do realise that if she can do it I can do it and when she leaves in a week all hell will not break loose. I think when she goes I'll spend a week really concentrating on establishing a long afternoon nap and take him out in the mornings for a walk so that we both get a break.

Thanks to everyone for the advice and support, and for pointing out the vocab - 'naughty' and 'failure' etc. It is odd, I think of myself as a very confident person these days, but having a little baby as my responsibility has taken me back 10+ years to when I was in much less good shape emotionally. I really hadn't expected to feel so undermined personally - I started out so confident I left hte hospital less than 24 hrs after the birth because I knew I could breastfeed and didn't need guidance (true, as it turned out). My confidence has really taken a down-turn since then!

Marsup - that's good news

I think you have touched on something very important there about confidence - I know that even now if I can say confidently to DS2 "It's time to go to sleep now, lie down and put your quilt on" there is a far higher chance of him doing it than if I am in one of my "Oh God he doesn't look at all tired, I bet he's going to be awake until ten o'clock oh yibber yibber yibber" moods. I definitely found when the boys were babies that putting them down in a confident manner seemed to help, even though a lot of the time I felt anything but confident and it was really putting on an act!

Does that sound really stupid?

marsup, glad you feel things are getting better. Good luck for when your mum leaves. One thought - in my experience and from what I've read, I think it is likely to be easier to establish a napping routine in the morning, when the baby is less tired and its easier to be sure that he hasn't been awake for too long, than later on in the day when things start to get grizzly and generally unravel....it also means you've got something to look forward to if the morning doesn't go well!

Glad to hear things are getting better marsup.

Unfortunately my ds has never been one of these babies that nap for several hours in the day (in one go) and I had to get used to 3 x 45min naps spread across the day, usually at 9am, 12ish, 4pm latest and this dropped down to two around 7mo to 10am & 3pm.

I guess I'm trying to say that your ds may settle for a long nap at some point in the day but don't be disheartened if he doesn't. Several shorter naps can do the same job, it just depends on your baby.

Dinosaur's advice on the body language you use when you settle him is also very important, even if it is an act and once the door is closed you just think "this isn't going to work" and surprisingly it does! Good luck over the next couple of weeks.

marsup - the type of baby that crys easily, wants permanent comfort and finds it difficult to but him/herself to sleep can be utterly exhausting to deal with and unless you've been through it you can have no idea. I had friends with good sleepers who literally didn't know what we were going through. FACT - Some newborn babies are harder than others to look after (whatever the Gina Ford "they can all be moulded into one type" camp says). It really can knock your confidence but it will get easier and the flipside is that these type of children make for fantastic, bright, quick to learn toddlers - honest!

Katierocket, I agree about GF - I find it very annoying that she thinks all babies are basically the same (she also thinks colic doesn't exist). The baby whisperer books are better at dealing with the fact that babies are different, but that doesn't really help enormously. Dinosaur seems very right about confidence too; I care too much about DS crying and get too upset, whereas DH who doesn't mind the crying stays cool and just lets him yell a bit and eventually he sleeps (not if he is left alone for long, but if he yells a bit in between). It takes about the same amount of time, but I get depressed by it and spend ages settling and resetttling the baby while if DH puts him down he spends some of the crying periods reading quietly!

Thinking of you Marsup. As you know I'm also only a 13 week old mum myself so have no real advice regarding the nap situation. However, whenever I'm getting down and feel it's all getting too much, that's when I give myself a reality check. I watch the news or even look out the window and see people struggling to feed, cloth and water their families - basic things we take for granted. I generally have a good cry (bloody hormones) then thank the powers that be that my only troubles are - is my baby getting too fat, why won't he nap when/where I want him to, sleepsuit or vest. I'm not saying our troubles are trivial - they are very real to us however take a step back every now and then and take a look at the "big picture". You can tell me to poke it OR give it a go. Your new perspective on things might give you and little Leo the deep breath you need to get things on track. I'll shut up now - hugs sweetie

Marsup, just a quick post, I hope things are getting better, they will. My ds2 had just had his 1st b'day, and when I think backto those none sleep days it is soo hard. Try to stay +ve, speaktoyour HV, go to a Mothers & Toddler's group, I'm the Chairman for ours and we love little babies, we have all been through it and know how you feel.

Youare doing really well, the fact that you have posted makes you an even better Mum. lots of hugs,and it WILL get better

hello there, i think it is very true saying that babes have better things to do, my chap of 3.5mnths won't sleep much during the day if at all. i believe gina ford's theory of one nap in the morn. one 2hr nap at lunch and down at 7pm!!! leaves a baby awake all night, i've tried it and my child went from up twice in the night to a wopping 8 times a nite! This practical routine implementation is not practical at all. Now with one short nap and down at 9pm he is back to 2times a night, i'm leaving him to get out of this himself, dunno wat else to try - got any idea's - i'd love to hear them. Good luck to all of you going thru this - as a working mum it is not easy and i share your pain. kindest regards.

Obtical, sounds like your baby really doesn't need much sleep! Mine gets wretched if he doesn't get enough sleep. He is having more and more naps in his basket now, but I still find it really hard; all my instincts are saying to cuddle and stroke and be gentle and I have to more or less 'force' him to go to sleep, he resists it so much - and pacing around with him screaming in my arms is also not brilliant as I have tendonitis. I had a bit of SPD in late pregnancy and I htink the excess relaxin hormone is still there - I used to be much more robust! still I think now that I can just work on minimising the pacing and rocking and screaming, so there is definite progress. DH has to get used to me crying afterwards, I think it is my own unwinding process (I know what you mean, kiwicath).

Is you DS really getting fat, kiwicath? mine kicks and yells so much he is all muscle and bone...

Have you tried some white noise or dummy, had problems with DS2 getting him to sleep during the day. I ended up putting him to sleep in the kitchen in front of the dryer, the noise calmed him down.

I didn't use the dummy at night and removed it fully when he was about 5 months, before he was too used to it. Stopped using the dryer about another month later and now he sleeps in his cot, twice a day and through the night.

Short term solutions do not have to be long term solutions. Do what you have to do to get some rest and sleep yourself.

Just to say my dd only slept through the night from 3yrs, we tried everything and I was starting to think it would never happen but hurray now we all sleep. I did not have much sucess with controlled crying but think this was prob cos dh was on nights and I was tired / desperate to sleep so gave in too easily