night wakings in toddler - do I just have to put up with it?

[elliott]

ds1 is nearly 28 months and has generally been a reasonable sleeper, though we've had to work at it....he has often gone through phases of brief wakings at night - he will cry for a few minutes and then get back to sleep, and in general we've left him to it unless there is any reason to check up on him, or if he doesn't settle within 5mins or so.
Anyway in the last few weeks his wakings have become much more of a problem - he is working himself up into screaming and shouting. Its not every night but on a bad night can happen several times, and leaves us all overtired and crabby! I've scoured my books and can't say that it fits any obvious cause - I don't think its nightmares as the instant we go in to him (and sometimes as we approach the room) he stops crying completely - usually comes out with some random complaint such as 'where's teddy' or 'I need my pillow' or 'Ineed a tissue to wipe my nose'. Then he'll settle down to sleep - though the cycle may start again for a couple more visits from one of us before he goes back to sleep. It mostly sounds like he is waking fully when he comes into a light sleep, and working himself in to a tantrum because he wants us to go in to him, rather than settling back to sleep without fully waking as he used to. We are currently trying to be very consistent in our response, going in briefly to check and settle him every 5 mins or so (doesn't normally require more than 2 or 3 visits). I am a bit stumped as to what else to do to try to reduce the frequency of the wakings. Or do I just have to wait and hope that things will get better?

I'll be watching for the responses.... as we have the same problem and I can sympathise....

DD at 18mths is generally a good sleeper, but wakes up at least 3 or 4 times in the night, and cries and if we go in just smiles or wants to play or has a tantrum if we don't do what she wants, not that we always know what that is. I never give her a drink at night and don't give too much fuss unless she is really screaming uncontrollably, in which case we just calm her as quickly as poss, and leave. I know children don't sleep through as such, but how do we stop her crying when she does wake. he goes to bed at 7pm and is actually quite good in the mornings, I don't get her up till 8-9am.

So for at least a month we have not gone in at all, no need for controlled crying, we might peek to see if she's ok but generally it only takes her a couple of minutes to be quiet. The HV said it might take her a while to break the habit, but this is ridiculous!!

She is disturbing our sleep, and is making us so tired !

For the last 2 nights I have taking to just shouting at her from our bedroom, to shut-up. Sounds terrible I know, but it actually works sometimes!!!! And it has brought back a forgotten memory of me doing the same with DS when I got sick of going in and giving him his dummy, coz he was lazy.

Smellymelly, if 'shut up' works, then do it! I suspect she will stop eventually, esp if you never go in. Elliot, is he old enough for a star chart with a reward for not waking you up? Has he got a book or toy in his cot to look at when he wakes? How long do you leave him for when he wakes? I'd be inclined to leave him to it, frankly, as it sounds like a bad habit which your visits may be encouraging - how nice to see a friendly face at night - and how dreadful for you!

Our ds is rather older so might not be the same thing (he's 34 months), but after a month or two of very variable sleep at night (after previously being a good sleeper) we've recently realised that he did need his daytime nap after all. It seems that by bedtime he was getting overtired and then would be difficult to put to bed and wake several times in the night.

Starting to put him down for a nap again in the afternoon and so far, no night wakings (but it's only been a few days, so can't prove our theory quite yet!) Also being strict about going straight back to bed when he wakes.

I wonder if your ds has recently given up a daytime nap too? Might not be, as I say, my ds is a little bit older, but thought I'd mention it.

hmmm, well that's about where we were when ds1 was 18 months, so that's not very encouraging for you! I could cope with it when he just briefly cried and resettled, but now it is a full blown tantrum it's a different matter. In fact we have gone in cycles - he'll have a good phase, then wake one night and we'll go in and sort him out because its 'unusual'; then for the next few nights things will get worse before we finally twig that its the going in that makes it worse, so we get tough and that sorts it out for a while....its just that this time it has been more persistant, and the next stage of getting tough is simply to leave him to it - I know that is going to be very ugly and for some reason this time I'm a bit unsure about going through with it....we have also been trying a star chart (more in hope than expectation) and although he does understand what he needs to do, he's still to young really to be able to control himself in the middle of the night for the sake of a sticker in the morning! perhaps when he's 3 or 4.....sigh...
oh and we also get this from 6am occasionally - and no it isn't just that he is ready to get up, if anything he needs more sleep than he's currently getting, not less.

ooops another mammoth posting...

(Incidentally, meant to mention that ds has gone for months without needing a daytime nap to suddenly needing one again)

aloha and georgina - posted while I was composing novel - he does still have his daytime nap but often I feel wakes too early from it - and overall he is on the overtired side but its a bit of a vicious cycle isn't it?
aloha I think my gut feeling is the same - that our visits (however brief and unengaged they are, believe me we are doing the absolute minimum) are the problem. But I know toughing it out will be a real showdown this time, and it is heart rending (maybe the threads on the cruelty of controlled crying have got to me!) one night I did intend to start a get tough strategy, and he raged for about half an hour before I went in (I thought he had been sick....fortunately he hadn't) and he then stopped immediately. So that's why we've been trying a more controlled approach, but I think with him it is not going to work. just need a few more people to suggest that it is the right idea and that it won't scar him for life at this age!

Yes, it is a vicious cycle

Not that it's much consolation, but I was talking to my MIL the other day and she said you never really "suss" sleep - they'll be fine for ages and then you'll get another burst of sleeplessness that gets out of hand until you're firm again... goes in cycles. It sort of reassured me in that at least ds was "normal"!

I do think you need to be firm though. It'll be good for him and you to be well rested and you'll interact so much better in the day when you're both getting enough sleep. I really don't think a few days of "sleep training" is going to scar them for life - far more scarring is to let this sleep deprivation go on and on for both of you.

Good luck

I can sympathise as my ds (28 months) has never had a night's sleep in his life! Every night he has to fall asleep with us and then I move him into his own bed, only to be woken again a couple of hours later by the sounds of "mummy, mummy" and then I have to either get in bed with him or he has to come into our bed. He never goes to bed before 10pm - usually more like 10.30 ish, and after 2-3 wakes in the night, gets up at 7 in the morning. He has 1 daytime nap of about an hour. He just doesn't seem to need as much sleep as his poor mum!

Tend to agree with GeorginaA, but also can really feel for you as I would hate to do it with ds too. Is he really, really warm at night? Ds wakes earlier and sleeps more lightly if he is chilly. I do two tops, pj trousers, socks (very important!) and heating on from 5am. Plus a blanket over his grobag if it's remotely chilly. I can't sleep deeply if I'm cold and I think ds is the same. Also, what time does he go to bed - I have found in the past that an earlier night is more helpful than a later one. Good luck.

Thanks for your ideas - hadn't really made a link with temperature (if anything wondered if he was too hot) but a few weeks ago we swapped his grobag for a duvet - so that has been changed back again, and I think has helped a little (a bit sad though as he was so tickled to have his own 'doovay' - he says it beautifully!) He goes to bed at 7 so not a huge scope for moving that forward... I guess the problem is I can't decide if it is a big enough issue to go through the get tough approach...think I may try systematically increasing the length of time we leave him - then at least we are not completely abandoning him but hopefully he will start to settle himself back down again. oh, its all so tedious isn't it, all I want is a reliable night's sleep!!

Ok I'm just checking back here to update (if anyone's interested!) We seem to have cracked it - I did need to get tough but it wasn't nearly as painful as I feared. I went for a 'staged retreat' - and decided very clearly in advance what the response would be. First night I decided to wait a little longer before going in, then only to stand at the door and tell him it was night time. I think we had about 15 mins max of crying, then the second night only one brief episode, and now 4 nights in a row with stickers!
We've also been sticking religiously to nap times - I think he'd got unsettled because of too much interuption to his regular routine, I thought by now he might be able to tolerate skipping his nap occasionally to do nice things, but I got too complacent and have been reminded that I don't have the most flexible toddler when it comes to sleep

So thanks for reminding me what I knew I should do!!

Great news Elliott, always good to feel that you have cracked something.