"My baby self settles to sleep". Help me out here. What does this even mean and how do you do it?

[Germanwife]

What do people actually mean by this? Left, right and cente, all I hear is "put your baby down drowsy but awake", "my lo selft settles and sleeps through the night" etc.

Well, I'm having an epic battle with DS's sleeps. He is ten weeks old and has just stopped nursing to sleep. He also no longer responds to any of our other strategies - rocking, swaddling, patting, shushing, singing, white noise, the sling... This is both for bedtime and nap time.

I plan to follow the No Cry Sleep solution and The Sleep Lady (their plans start at 3 months plus) but in the meantime, since nothing settles my DS anymore I thought I'd try to teach self settling.

So I started putting DS into his Moses basket for bedtime and nap time, drowsy but awake (we watch his sleep cues and the clock to make sure he's not overtired) - but he cries and then screams. I know everyone says be prepared for some crying but today he cried for 45 mins in the basket with us next to him patting and shushing. He did not fall asleep. Every time we do this, he just becomes agitated and wide awake, then we have to try and settle him.

I cannot think how else to teach this self settling. Am I missing a trick? Do you literally just put your baby down and walk out? How often/long do I have to do it? How did you decide when your lo is ready to learn to self settle? And if he keeps crying until he settles, how is this different to CIO? (Which I do not want to do).

Germanwife Sat 15-Feb-14 17:12:20
What do people actually mean by this? I think it's supposed to mean that they don't need a prop to "work" for them, they can find their own way through. Be it to suck a hand, twiddle a blanket, or moan and grumble etc.

He is ten weeks old and has just stopped nursing to sleep.
That is an amazing accomplishment so early on! So many babies need feeds overnight until 6 months.

.. today he cried for 45 mins in the basket with us next to him patting and shushing. He did not fall asleep. Every time we do this, he just becomes agitated and wide awake, then we have to try and settle him.

With my first son, trying to shush or pat, sent him absolutely wild! We really had to gently but firmly say the same words (like "Shush now, it's time for sleep") over and over again each night.

Am I missing a trick?
No - just every baby is so different. My second baby doesn't get agitated with shushing and patting like my first son did. It honestly really is trial and error.

Do you literally just put your baby down and walk out? After the same routine and gentle words as you do it, yes.

How often/long do I have to do it? Every time he sleeps.

How did you decide when your lo is ready to learn to self settle? When my health visitor (who I really like and trust), pointed out that he is of an age now where his waking for a feed is entirely linked to wanting comfort and not actually needing food. That was when I decided I needed to make drastic changes because all the sleep deprivation was badly affecting my physical health.

And if he keeps crying until he settles, how is this different to CIO? If you leave them to it, they should cry for a little while, a bit like they would do in the back of a car when you're driving and can't reach them for a little time.

Some babies actually need to cry to be able to sleep, which is really hard for the parents. My baby cries if he falls asleep in the car, in the pushchair right in front of me, in his bed at home, even in my arms sometimes.

I agree with you that CIO wasn't my thing either. The idea distressed me too much. But I never needed to put myself to the test as he was always asleep within about 5 minutes.

And the cry is a tired moaning type of cry, not a panicking 'help' type of cry. I think knowing the difference helps. Also if I go downstairs and can hear him but not as close as outside the door, that helps me!

Finally, sometimes after about 5 minutes (usually by the time I've boiled the kettle and made myself a drink) he still hasn't settled, I will pick him up silently, or with just a quiet shuuuuuuush in his ear, and pat his back. Sometimes he releases a bit of wind and then is happy to settle again the second time. But this isn't every time, more like once or twice a week at the most.

Also I personally wouldn't try any sleep teaching methods until 6 months, other than routines.

Yes - You pretty much put them down and walk out. Of course you make sure all their needs are met first (warm, dry, clean, fed, comfortable, burped etc and that they are ready for a nap) but there just comes a point that you can do no more, so you leave them to it and they learn for themselves how to settle to sleep.

Warning this may involve a little bit of crying on their part initially but not anywhere near as much as you think or feel when you first do it. What can seem like the longest period of screaming ever to you as their mother, often in real life is less than 5-10 minutes. It just seems like forever to you.

There will be days they scream blue murder at the absolute horror and indignation of being put down and you will need to go in an calm them down, and other times when it goes like a dream and you wonder what the hell you did right. The more you do it, the easier it will become and eventually you will realise that you are actually keeping them awake rather than settling them down.

It does help if you have some semblance of a routine as its much easier to read their sleep cues. Its much easier for them to settle themselves if they are not over tired but catching that perfect moment where they go from mildly sleepy to horrendously over tired is hard.

Please note, I am NOT advocating letting them scream for prolonged periods on their own, however, I do believe that leaving them to cry for A TINY BIT is not detrimental to their health. I have a 7 year old and 5 year old who both sleep like a dream (and who now put themselves to sleep with rarely any input from me whatsoever - I just tell them to go to bed and they do) and a 9 week old who is beginning to get the idea even if he is not 100% there yet. All three are happy, healthy and so far still like me as their mum. Not noticed any psychological scarring yet!

mathanxiety but what's the solution in that case? DS doesn't settle to sleep using any of the traditional methods - nursing, rocking, shushing, patting - and doesn't seem ready for self settling.

You accept that the baby isn't much of a sleeper.
Look at it this way -- the baby is playing the game of 'guess what makes me go to sleep' and you keep on guessing, trying. Who is being trained? How do you know any of it is working and not just a brain fart on the part of the baby when he finally settles?

I ended up nursing most of mine to sleep. None of the books said that was a good idea, but sadly none of them were readers at that stage and memos sent out about correct methods of nodding off went right over their heads. You are having an epic battle with someone who is 10 weeks old and not in any way neurologically organised.

It may seem as if you have been dealing with the baby forever and that this will never end because 10 weeks is a long tome to be catering to someone 24/7 when you're not used to it, but in truth 10 weeks is a very young baby.

It must be down to the baby. DC1 - had to be rocked to sleep, for hours. DC2 - 4 months old, lie him down in his cot and he just drifts off. I actually thought something was wrong with him! It seemed too simple. Have done exactly the same with both children so who knows?

Both mine have settled if they have a muslin square to fondle, it isn't something I deliberately taught them though, it just happened. First they would cry and I would tuck muslin in for the dribbles, they would keep crying and then be fed. Then they stopped crying when the muslin was tucked in as they knew they would be fed. My DD started to relax and sleep well around 12weeks if she had a muslin, strangely my DS was only 8 weeks when he would hold onto it to go to sleep. I guess this is why there is a market for comforters, with wee teddies and things attached, you could maybe see if one helps, he'll be starting to hold onto things now so a good time?

Dunno. From very early on (a matter of weeks) dd would hve a feed at bedtime and get sleepy, I'd put her in cot and she'd drift off. She didn't self settle after waking in the night though until she was over two (and still woke twice at night til then).

Ds couldn't get himself to sleep til he was a toddler. Can't remember how old but over two I think.

They both had exactly the same bedtime routine as babies.

Hi Germanwife

I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if someone has already said this.

Your DS sounds like he is overtired. If he is not falling asleep in any of the traditional ways (rocking, feeding) that used to work then that is a classic overtiredness sign IME.

If he is overtired there is no way in hell you will be able to teach him to self settle.

You need to sort out the overtiredness first - which means getting him to sleep as much as you can, by whatever means necessary (in my DD's case it was very long, very fast pram walks over bumpy roads, with no stopping. Others find sling or car works).

Once you've done that for a few days and he's not overtired - i.e. once he starts responding to the old ways of falling asleep again - then you can work on teaching self settling. (but be careful not to be so focused on teaching self settling that you get back into overtiredness).

As others have said, some babies never go through the "awake but drowsy" or yawning stage. Mine didn't. IMO these are also the babies most prone to overtiredness (i.e. they go straight from alert to overtired and fighting sleep, with no "normal tired" phase in between). We did manage to teach DD to self settle but it was using controlled crying when she was a lot older, not at 10 weeks.

Sorry, just saw you said "we watch his sleep cues and the clock to make sure he's not overtired"

Maybe you're right... but he certainly sounds overtired to me... The fact he won't fall asleep on the boob any more, even if he "should" be tired at that time, really suggests overtiredness to me.

I have three children.

The first stopped napping during the day at 10 weeks old. She would just scream. It was hell. The only way I could get her to sleep was in the buggy so I would tramp the streets every day for an hour so she at least got some rest. I lost a lot of weight. The only good thing was she did sleep very well at night.

The second was 'the perfect baby'. She was in a routine of her own making at one week old. She had 10 minute feeds every four hours that would drain my boob then bob off (still wide awake), I'd put her down (awake) and she'd sleep for hours. She was very easy. Obviously I was convinced I was a wonderful experienced mother.

Then I had number three. He was like big sis number 1. It was only once he had started nursery (and his big sister had started school) that I managed to get him into a pattern of napping after lunch (for which I do have to thank nursery) although he will yell for a couple of minutes when I first put him down, I know he'll be OK if he stays lying down, if he gets up then there is no way he'll sleep.

It's the personality of the child that determines how easily they nap during the days. You can try all the techniques you want but some babies fight sleep more than others and there's not a lot you can do except call on favours from everyone you know to ensure you and your DH get enough sleep yourselves.

DS had his own strict routine, stick to it and he was so happy, deviate and he turned into a screaming miserable scrap. He followed the GF routine for a 6 week old until he was a year old ! I didn't know GF existed until he was 3 months, when I read the book I was amazed, he was following it so closely. From about 2 months I could put him in a sleeping bag, cuddle him for a minute, and pop him in the cot, leave and off to sleep he went, I don't think he needed the cuddle, I just wanted to give him one.

Dd was a different baby! But even she self settled from 7 months extremely well. Until then I cuddled her til she'd settle down and sleep, which could take a long time.

I was lucky!

Overtiredness does prevent them from going to sleep, my DD would scream and scream some nights when we tried to put her to bed, we tried everything before finally coming to the conclusion she was overtired - she woudn't feed, she didn't have wind, she had clean nappy, the room was pleasantly dark etc. My aunt said to me the best thing you can give a child is the ability to get themselves off to sleep, this was when DD was tiny. But although she was ok at night, she was never in a sleep routine during the day until she was about 1, and it was a nightmare getting her off to sleep for a nap until that point. I would just try to nurse her to get her to sleep. Not much fun and no help once I'd stopped breastfeeding.

The thing i found most helpful (only because it worked for us) was to put them down when they were still happy. Basically, a feed, a play, then down for a sleep. Not a foolproof plan.

And despite settling well, DS2 refuses to go to sleep anywhere apart from his own bed, so if we're away, I have to sit with him, hand on his stomach until he goes to sleep (he's 3 and a bit). And the other two never were like this at all...

I'm not sure anyone really has the answer but I think you need to roll with the punches until 4-5 months and then once you start to get the whisper of a routine work with it - and at about the same time you start to notice the baby's cries are clearer (tired / cross / bored etc). At 10 weeks I think you just do what you have to. It doesn't mean your child will never sleep through

After having 3DS and talking to lots of other mums I would say that a huge amount of whether your child sleeps well or not is luck with a very small amount of your input. At 10weeks DC are still fairly random and still exceptionally dependent. DS1 was appalling at sleeping, DS2 was entirely random and DS3 was fantastic in the day and appalling at night! DS3 just self settled all by himself in the day without me putting in any effort or doing anything different to DS1 and 2. He was an exceptionally routine child so that helped and also hindered because his night time routine was appalling as I focused on DS1 and 2 as they needed the night time sleep as they could not sleep in the day.

The best book I ever bought was the 'teach your child to sleep' book by The Millpond Clinic. It contains facts and information not opinion and step by step plans of action - what every sleep deprived parent needs. You choose the method the suits you and your family without the guilt that some books (and other parents) try and give you if you don't follow their philosophy.

10 weeks is really young still so don't worry!

When mine were that age they lost the ability to go to sleep in the daylight (car/buggy excepted) and we started putting them down for naps in their cots with blacked out windoes, a dummy and some white noise playing. It wasn't really self settling as they fall asleep sucking the dummy, lose it, and then cry for it when they partially arouse, but it worked for the daytime.

At 10 weeks I would say do anything that works, and worry about sorting out habits when he's a little older.

I will never, ever, ever get this whole forcing your baby to bend to your will FAD against it's natural development just to convenience you into a good night's sleep and a more routine household over all. It's a baby, they cry and unsettle everyone's life in the household, it's part of the natural process. Deal with it.

Hi this never happened to my babies #1, #2 or #3. However when I had a surprise 4th pregnancy with #4 and #5 together, it actually happened!!! I think possibly because I was so racing about with them all they worked to a proper schedule and I wasn't able to coddle to every cry.

Not that I would recommend that as a solution.

You are not doing anything wrong at all - I think a lot of babies go through phases where they find it really hard to go to sleep day or night. Both of mine have. DD was generally a great sleeper DS is pretty rubbish. Have done much the same with both of them so I really believe its luck of the draw and you have to just do your best with what you've got.

Both of mine are thumb suckers and have had a bear/blankie respectively which they like to cuddle. That has really helped them to settle themselves and I have always put them down awake BUT both still went through phases of not napping / short napping / taking ages to settle etc. Another thing I really think helps is having a little mini 'routine' that you do when you put them down. I always change the nappy then put them in the sleeping bag and say the same thing like 'Let's get you cosy in your sleeping bag' etc. Like I said no miracles but I think if you keep plugging away at it you'll end up with something that works at least 75% of the time!

Try not to let others judgement or expectations make you feel like you're not doing it right. There is no 'right'.

We are very much trained and conditioned to think if there's a problem then there must be a solution. Somewhere along the way to where we are now baby sleeping has been identified as a fruitful area to sell those solutions, and we grasp at them because we are so very tired. The baby sleep industry has sprung up around our desperation and in answer to our conditioning, encouraging us to believe there are solutions and all we need to do is light on the right one and our troubles will be over. We keep on buying the books and following the method(s) and meanwhile babies lurch from one stage to the next, causing us to clap ourselves on the back one minute for finally cracking it, and then casting us into the depths of despair when the baby moves on to a phase of light sleep or little sleep, or no sleep.

And if the baby finally turns into the kind of sleeper we want him or her to be we have no way of knowing if it's the routine or just the baby reaching a new stage of neurological development regardless of our efforts (and maybe even despite them) that has caused it.

I nursed baby 1 to sleep. It was like a general anaesthetic. A magic button. I told myself he would work it out eventually (he did) but in the short term, the path of least resistance was the best for us both.

I was given a light show and music projector, from ELC Blossom Farm, it is strapped to the side of cot and DD would watch it on the ceiling whilst I left the room and then she fell asleep on her own.

Worked a treat, it was invaluable for me.

DS learnt to self settle at 18 weeks. I think 10 weeks is still quite early.

I hadn't planned to teach him to self settle, but one (hellish day) it was 11.30am and I still wasn't dressed, or had brushed my teeth. DS was a bit overtired as well. I thought sod it - you'll have to lie in your cot for 5 mins while I throw on some clothes and brush my teeth (electronic toothbrush has a 3 min auto timer). So, I started brushing my teeth with the background screaming and then I realised when my toothbrush cut out that DS had stopped screaming - I went to check on him and he was asleep! Since then he's always grizzled/screamed for 1-2 mins and then conked out at his 'naptimes'. I am absolutely not a fan of leaving babies to cry for any length of time but as they get older I do think some just have a scream to help them settle - he's 2 now and will still protest for up to 2 mins when he goes down, but then he's out like a light.

PS - I am very lucky to have a baby that would do this, but I was so against any crying etc. that unless I'd been driven to try it by gross morning teeth, I'd have never discovered what a good settler he actually was!

Thank you all for your responses! This has made me feel better. Thank you also for highlighting that it is often a matter of luck!

magpie re: over tiredness, yes, he definitely gets overtired during the day. I start by trying to get him to take a nap around 30-40 mins after he wakes up, but it never happens, because it has become difficult to settle him. . It might be almost 1.5 or 2 hours before he is asleep. Then, he only naps for 30 mins (my other huge problem). So this also makes any routine impossible and means that I spend most of the day calming an overtired baby. At most, we will get 2 or 3 30min naps.

mathanxiety I completely agree with you. My main problem as a result of all this is that DS is so tired during the day and is very cranky, so clearly the lack of napping resulting from his inability to settle /my inability to settle him, isn't very good for him and certainly isn't making him happy :(

showmesaturn I don't think getting a baby to nap or sleep is forcing the baby to conform to a parent's will. Note that we are not taking about getting a baby to 'sleep through the night' or nap on schedule. Babies need to sleep both during the day and night and my problem is that I can't get DS to sleep at all in the day which clearly can't be good for him as it makes him unhappy and cranky. I'm not taking about a disrupted household, but simply meeting a baby's needs.

laughing thank you for your very detailed reply, that's really helpful

minipie apologies - I referred to you as magpie earlier!