Baby only naps when held - any suggestions?

[marsup]

DS, 10 weeks today, is starting to get over his colic now, but because of the colic I have been holding him and rocking him a lot and now he won't nap anywhere except in his wilkinet if someone walks at a reasonable speed or in someone's arms - someone being either my mother or myself. My mother has extended her stay in the UK 3 times because she can see I'm not coping very well, but she'll have to go home eventually... Has anyone had this problem? any suggestions about how to get him to nap by himself, or do I have to wait until he is 6 months old to do controlled crying?

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I agree with bloss - you have to know your baby, which I guess is why this debate will always get heated, as there are so many genuine answers - which work for different babies.

For us, we naturally formed a rule that said "a baby who will not settle even when held, clearly just needs to cry and so can do it by himself." If he wanted to sleep in our arms, he did, if he wanted to cry in our arms, he didn't! Writing it down it sounds very harsh, but at the time it seemed absolutely right, so I guess it must have been obvious to us from his responses that that was what he wanted.

We feel that crying is a baby's way of communicating that it wasn't happy, and we didn't believe in shutting it up at all costs. Although it hurt out eardrums and got on our nerves sometimes, I think it would have been unfair to have given him the impression that it is bad to cry or to express himself or that we would fuss around him until he stopped. Sometimes babies need to cry!

Marsup, my dd cried when put down to sleep - wouldn't even sit on a buggy or bouncing chair - she wanted to be held all the time. I basically carried her all the time in a sling (Baby Bjorn) - even in the evening when she was colicky. I sat on a Swiss ball to bounce while watching TV/sneaking sips of wine.
At about six months I started putting her down for proper naps and did then let her cry for a few minutes (never been able to leave her more than 5-10). I'm aware this may not be much help to you but try to remember it won't last forever.
Good luck, Dinny

Sorry Marsup I hadn't realised that he was made more furious by rocking.

Thank you so much, bloss and fisil! this thread was beginning to get me down, with the accusations of mistreatment, etc. To be honest I had never intended to leave DS so long, but because his crying was of the 'complaining' kind and not continuous, whereas in our arms it is often 'furious/intense' (if you see what I mean) I was actually quite surprised by how well he took it. On the other hand finding him with his eyes wide open has turned me right off the experiment... Now we are back to long cuddly night-time co-sleeping (no problem with that though I don't actually sleep but pat him on the back a lot of the time!). Have just tried putting him in his basket when asleep in my arms for a nap (I used to try this and had given up). It lasted 8 minutes. Still, 8 minutes is enough to go to the loo if one is at home all day, so I guess that is something.

Bloss, standing up only! That does put it all in perspective!

I just wish I hadn't agreed to do some editorial work at home in the months to come (well, before September). Using the computer is pretty tricky - in fact when my mother leaves it'll be bye bye mumsnet, unless things have changed a lot.

I'm with bloss on this one - some babies get easily over tired and over stimulated and get to sleep better when left alone.
A couple of comments - why were you upset that he was lying awake quietly? My ds2 (who is a pretty easy baby) often takes a while to drift off to sleep - maybe 20 or 30 minutes (though I don't really know anymore as I've stopped checking) - as long as he's quiet (or grumbling intermittently), I'm happy to leave him - he seems to need that long sometimes just to wind down and drift off. He'll often spend a while quietly on his own when he wakes up too - I'd always seen this as a positive thing, as he certainly lets me know when he does want attention!
How is his sleep pattern during the day? The fury you describe sounds like overtiredness - have you tried getting him to sleep -somehow, anyhow -within 2 hours of him waking? (and he may be tired and need to sleep much sooner than this) Will he sleep if being pushed in the buggy? - this might be less tiring than walking with the sling, and you might be able to progress to stopping the pushchair once he is really asleep. (my ds1 was a sleep fighter during the day, and at this age it was impossible for him to nap in the cot - so I concentrated on at least getting him to sleep when he needed it by going on long walks 3 times a day - but sometimes I was able to park the pushchair and just rock it when I saw him stirring, so I got a bit of a break - I finally solved the problem by sleep training at 4-5 months)
Finally, the book I've found most useful for sleep problems has a section specifically on the sleep difficulties colicky babies can develop - might be of interest to you - the book is 'Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child' by Marc Weissbluth, and you can get it on Amazon (or I can lend it you).
Good luck and lots of sympathy - you must be truly exhausted, but it will it will it will get better.

MArsup, if it helps -you mentioned about comitting to editorial work-, I decided to follow Gina ford's routines because I was and continued to study when the baby was born and because I am self-employed so, forget about a long maternity leave. The fact that he learned to go to sleep at 7, allowed me 3 hrs to study before his 11pm bottle, and it was also a time dh and I could use to wind down, have a time for ourselves and enjoy each other company. I will be stoned for what I'm going to say but if I haven't find that book I would have left my studies by now, and wouldn't have had anytime to work from home. If you don't want to try it now, fair enough, but keep it mind for when you need it in the future Good luck

I agree, why were you so upset by his lying quietly? I don't understand. My suggestions, keep him awake for two hours after he wakes up - no napping at all. Then pop him in his cot, wrapped up toasty warm with his feet covered, in a nice dark room, coo a bit and then leave him. He may cry for five minutes, so go downstairs and put the kettle and the radio on. If his crying goes on longer, go back, pick up, cuddle, resettle. This worked for my ds (who was, admittedly, quite a bit older than yours). But don't panic. My ds slept in my arms all the time at that age and I really liked it and look back at it fondly. Now he's two and the other day he drifted off with me for the first time for over a year. It was rather nice. He naps every day in his own cot, sometimes for three hours. Babies change so much that how he is at a tender ten weeks is no predictor at all as to how he will be in two weeks, let alone four months. I too think an hour of crying is too much for a ten week old baby.

Gosh this brings back some memories for me ... mine are now 6.5 and nearly 5. It is hard when it's your first, (I presume he is your first?), but I think to an extent you have to go with your gut feeling as to what it is he needs. Babies are different, they have different needs, (and they don't all fit into neat GF moulds).

Ds1 for example would always prefer to go to sleep whilst being held/cuddled. Yes, sometimes this was a real pain, and frustrating - but it is a relatively short time after all, and now (through rose-tinted spectacles) those are quite precious memories. CC never worked for him at any age.

DS2 in contrast never ever ever went to sleep in your arms, no matter how tired he was - he just needed the space/freedom of a cot, floor, pram, whatever! He also generally needed a short (c.5 mins) scream/fuss before he went off to sleep from a very young age. When he was older and started to protest a bit at his cot, we did CC and it worked like a dream - took just two nights.

Both excellent sleepers now - 12-13 hrs per night straight through, and lovely cuddly boys.

The real problem isn't just getting him to sleep in my arms; it is that once he is asleep and I put him down he wakes usually quite quickly unless he is held constantly. We are now trying to lengthen the time he spends asleep in his cot - I managed 30 minutes earlier today!!! which is major progress. My hopes with teaching him to go to sleep by himnself were that (as I think GF says) he would then 'self-settle' when coming into a light sleep. The other problem is that now there are times when he screams louder in our arms than when left in his cot, so it is increasingly hard to continue the 'rocking' regime we've been following from the beginning because of colic.

Oh Marsup honey, have been following the thread and really don't know how to help. We were lucky that collic was not a problem for us and that Jake is a sleeper but I do agree with Roison that all babes are different (as grown-ups are) and they respond/react to different stimulai. Keep plugging away at getting him to spend more time in his cot or on his own. If he's crying while being held, he's obviously not crying for attention so maybe he's begging to go to sleep only he doesn't quite now how to at the moment. Jake knows how to sleep now but if I miss the window, he gets overtired and takes a few minutes of grizzling - even crying to get to sleep. He doesn't sleep well in the buggy, car or bouncy thing and craves a quite dark room. Try to get hold of "the baby whisperer" if you can as it's the only book that really did us any favours. It's not a routine as such but simply teaches you to understand your baby's language and respond accordingly. One thing more - put any allegations of "CHILD ABUSE" out of your mind. You are a mum who loves your little Leo very much and is just trying to find something that works for him. Good luck Sweetie

Hi Marsup, my ds only slept for 45mins at a time in the day until a few weeks ago (he is now 8.5mo). At 10/11wks old he'd nap for 3 times a day or sometimes I could squeeze in a 4th. He fell asleep in different places, but most often on me (and like Bloss - standing up (HAVE NO IDEA how he sensed you sitting down but he did!!)). Like you, marsup, we went through a phase of him waking up after 10mins or so. We found playing his favourite song (Clocks by Coldplay!) or a cd with a hair-drier on it were the only things that soothed him back to sleep. Some other good ideas are on this thread . A few of us were going throught the same thing.

Have you tired music? Is there a favourite song that he settles to in your arms? We found a few other songs worked and they happened to be hits in the charts when I was 7-9mo pg. If you'd like a copy of our hair-drier cd I could send you one.

Now DS can re-settle himself, but this only happened at 8months of age. The first time it happened I didn't think it was possible and kept checking on him every 5mins after the first 45!! Now it happens every other day, but is still mainly 45mins per nap. IT WILL CHANGE. Your DS will get the hang of it. He just needs a bit more time. Once you find that other "trick" that helps get him back to sleep you'll get some relief from it all. hugs

Thanks Karen99 - we have just ordered a CD of 'white noise', which is probably the same idea as your hairdryer recording. It's worth a try! And thanks for your sympathy, Kiwicath. I'll have a look at the baby whisperer soon - I've just bought GF's baby sleep book and find it very frustrating. She keeps saying 'well, if you'd applied the routine I describe in my other book (go buy it NOW) you wouldn't have any problems'; she also says colic doesn't exist, which is extremely helpful - I KNOW Leo had digestive pains earlier and I KNOW he doesn't have them now, though he is very bothered and woken by his own poos and farts, poor thing.

Latest developments; we've been trying to get him to sleep in his basket for the last two days, with the result that he has spent a lot of time crying (often with my mother or me stroking his head, which calms him down enough to fall asleep for a few minutes from time to time). THe last 2 nights he has been so exhausted he has then fallen asleep at a reasonable bed-time (ie not too far from 7 pm)on his own in the basket and slept for hours - 6 hours from the previous feed both times!! and this from a baby who usually feeds every 3-4 hours during the day and every 2-3 hours at night (I know, it should be the other way round). In the morning he wakes up grinning from ear to ear and gurgling happily at us; but as soon as he gets tired and we put him to bed all happiness is over.

I have started envying the women who don't have strong urges to have children, or who manage to deal with their desires and keep them under control. I did so want a baby that I know I would have had one eventually, and Leo is so beautiful and funny that he is clearly the baby I wanted to have, but I don't think I'm really cut out for motherhood. Still, to put it all in perspective I think a lot of mothers aren't ideal, and their children cope alright.

Oh Marsup, please don't get down about motherhood. These first few months are soooooooooooooooooooooo hard, but it does get better. My ds had colic too and always seemed in discomfort but he started to become a more relaxed baby at 4mo and now at 8mo is SUCH A JOY. The sleep deprivation and ds being tied to my boob made me feel resentful of the responsibility from time to time during those first few months, but you just have to look at his face and you just can't help but think "he needs me so much and if this is what it takes to help him grow stong and healthy this is what's to be done". The rewards totally squash those few moments of selfishness.

It really sounds like you're making some progress and in a few months time you'll be the one giving advice on MN to another new mum.

BTW, where do you live? Have you checked out some of the MN meetups? Ds was just 3mo when I went to my first one and it was nice getting out and hearing the same sound advice in person rather than from the PC!

Marsup ... just wanted to give you my support on this one as we've just gone through similar with our 14w old DS who got so used to being carried around for hours on end due to colic. Then as soon as tfrd to cot, woke-up. Naps during the day disappeared and he was waking 2 hrly at night. I'm a big fan of Healthy sleep Habits Happy Child by Marc Weissbluth and used this with DS1 but this week, dug out Gina (disaster for DS1) and took a few hints from her on advice of health visitor. Ignoring Gina's times, I put him down 2 hrs after he gets up in a dark room (that seems key) and semi-swaddled, for a 45 min nap. First day he cried 6 mins. He gets up for 2 hrs and then back again for 2.25 hrs, then up to bedtime. This is day 4 and the max he cried was about 18 mins and then only once. He's so much happier now he's not overtired - tonight he started to roar when I put him down but within 30 secs it was complaining and he'd stopped w'in 4 mins. Only thing is, that if I thought he was getting really worked up as opposed to giving out, I'd go in, lift him and walk him around for a couple of mins singing (tunelessly) to him before trying again. Good luck - you'll get there eventually.

Oh, and I'm not trying to make him go through the night per Gina at this stage - he gets lifted at 11pm or whenever and then will wake once or twice himself for b/feed which is more than fine by me.

hey, millie1, never met anyone else who knew about the Weissbluth book (apart from the American friend who recommended it to me...) how did you find it?

Hi Elliott ... read about it on another website. It's absolutely fantastic - guess you thought so too?

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hi marsup ,read this thread with interest as we have the same type of problem with our ds whos 12 weeks.he too had colic up till a month ago and now during the day wont go to sleep or stay asleep unless hes held and rocked or in his pushchair.he is geting better though.during the day i rock him to sleep then when i know hes in a deep sleep i either put him on the sofa with his head right next to the back of the sofa(he thinks hes still snuggling me) or very gently put him in his car seat/bouncy chair.if he wakes up i pick him up and do all again ,i have found he is getting longer between putting him down and him waking up.
at night im lucky and dont have a problem too much as i feed him ,wind him then rock for about 5 mins then put him in his moses basket even if hes still awake.i turn off the nightlight and lay down in bed with my hand on his chest and he goes off.it seems as long as i touch him till hes off to sleep hes fine.
my problem i have is when hes awake and i put him in his chair to do something ,hes fine if he can see me but if i go out of his view for more than a second then he screams.very hard when wanting to go to the loo.im very small and hes very big baby so sling is out of the question.
hope it helps to know your not alone.
oh and just as an afterthought i too cant let him cry for more than 2 mins ata a time.so cc is def out as well.

Well the 'let cry' experiment has worked in one unexpected way and failed utterly in another. He will now accept to go in his basket at around 7.00, which means he can sleep properly while we have dinner. But still no daytime naps alone. However, progress of a kind: he no longer screams instantly when put in his pram, so we can now 'nap' him in the wilkinet or the pram; and also since yesterday he has accepted a dummy and stopped kicking and screaming as much when we try to rock him to sleep in the daytime (this was the main reason we decided having him nap in our arms wasn't so good anymore - he doesn't seem to like it anymore and resists sleeping even like that). Good old dummies, thank god he's taken it now!

NB a friend has lent me the Weisbluth book, which seems much better than Gina Ford (in my eyes) who annoys the hell out of me by claiming all babies are the same and colic doesn't exist. Haven't read it all yet though.

Did you have any luck with the white noise CD. I swear it really helped my little man, that and a dummy. Don't despair it does get easier and he will sleep as he becomes more used to the world.

I've speed-read the messages. Don't know if anyone has suggested swaddling? My dd (now 8 months) had colic and also took rather a long time to get control over her arms and legs - would be very jerky, unsettling herself. She's a summer baby so it was really hot at first and I didn't want her to overheat, but when she was about 10 weeks I started wrapping her in a sarong, so still nice and light, and this seemed to do the trick. She's not a great sleeper, and never has been, but it worked for a while at least. I have to admit, though, that she does tend to sleep on me during the day. I like it. She's comfy and snug, and I have an excuse to do absolutely nothing. And it's been a godsend when we've been out and about at other people's houses during nap-time. We have a 'magic hold' where she's positioned as for b/feeding, but with dummy and a cuddly. So she'll nap on others too. Occasionally I'll transfer her to her cot if I've got to do stuff, or as today, we'll both go to bed together.

I've been having the problem that my 5 week old baby will only sleep when held on my chest. Last night I was awake all evening until 5am.

In the mornings I just have to let him scream and scream for half an hour to an hour because if I didn't my 2 year old would not get fed.

I used GF with my daughter but due to ds's low birthweight I have only just started on the 1 week routine but it isn't working well yet. His feeding pattern is on track, its just his sleep I need to sort. He does fall asleep in the car but I obviously can't spend all night driving around.

Any ideas?

Why don't you try putting him in a sling during the day? Dd2 used to live in that all day in the early days, and the beauty of it was that I could still feed/play with dd1. Try this one: www.slingeasy.co.uk

Julie F have you tried swaddling? I couldn't get the hang of with ds but other people really do swear by it for hard to comfort babies.