2yo sleep- would you speak to hv or gp?

[Madallie]

I have posted about 2yo dd a number of times recently. She is just 2 and has started to take between 1 and 1.5hrs to go to sleep at night.

Her routine at the moment is:
Wake - 6.30-7.15am
Nap - 1.00-2.20/30pm,
Bedtime - 7.30pm but does not fall asleep Til 8.30-9pm

Dd does not cry or doesn't seem upset about going to bed/ being in bed she just seems frustrated that she can't get to sleep. She goes off in 10 ish mins usually for her nap it's just bedtime that is the problem. It really stresses me out but I also think it must be really annoying for her. I really think she just can't get to sleep not that she doesn't want to go to sleep.

Once she's asleep she generally does sleep through but can be a restless sleeper and always has been. I just can't help but think 8.30 and definitely 9pm are just too late for a 2 yo to go to sleep at night especially as she wakes around 6.30am. I'm wondering whether I should see a gp or hv about this issue as she never used to take this long to go off. It would usually be 10-15 mins. Do you think it's anything to be concerned about?

I'm finding it particularly difficult at the moment as I am 36 weeks ph with dc2.

I'm not really sure but I do know the daily fail reported on some research that reckoned toddlers weren't really ready for bed time till around 8pm. melatonin is the sleepy hormone and it takes a while to build in the evenings - too much light can affect it which is why it's best to stay away from screens and bright lights an hour or two before you want to sleep.

have you tried a later bedtime - same routine etc? would she play in a quiet room / listen to story tapes? in fact could listening to stories on tape help?

It's also worth baring in mind people/children/ toddlers vary in the amount of sleep they need or want. Does she seem over tired? Perhaps that's all that she as an individual needs?

Or is she over tired and needs an earlier bedtime?

I wouldn't speak to either tbh. My husband and I (and several friends) swear by the book "the sleepeasy solution". Might be worth a look?

Might be in the stage of dropping her nap. Might be something overstimulating her at bedtime e.g. TV.

Wouldn't think its anything to be concerned about. If its dropping nap stage, you'll have a few weeks of annoyance while she's grumpy all the time she should have been asleep but spark out at 7pm, then she'll reset the clock.

Try dropping the daytime nap and if that doesn't work, or after a few weeks she's still grumpy and knackered all day even if sleeping 11 hours at night, then go to HV.

I'm on a thread for dec 2011 babies. All just turned 2. Many showing the same disturbed sleep/lack of interest in sleep.
This too shall pass...
Pleeeease!!!

Our HV referred us to a sleep clinic, so I would go that route if you are concerned..
BUT does she seem over tired? If not I would try cutting down or reducing the nap to see what effect that has.
I second what Darjeeling says about no screen time, a relaxing bedtime routine etc. I thought that melatonin was at its peak at 3pm and 3am, and that bedtime sleepiness is based on routine, but I could be very wrong!
You can also get sleep phase shift, which is where the body clock starts going a bit bonkers, but I think that is more common in teenagers.

I can never work out if dd us OT or ut, she has never given firm sleepy cues and us very easily overstimulated which can be mistaken for being OT.

Today we went out and dd had 45 min nap in her pushchair. She did seemed tired tonight. I put her down at same time, 7.30pm and she fell asleep within about 20 mins. That's been unheard for last month, it's always been at least 50mins-1hr. Maybe the shorter nap is the way to go. However my dd has always been v unpredictable so it's probably just a one off or she will wake at the crack if dawn tomorrow. I guess we shall see.

I was going to suggest shorter nap before I saw your last post, definitely keep nap to 45 mins, max one hour and see how it goes for a few weeks.

I think that's what I should do twaggerty but for some reason that makes me nervous - I'm such a wimp, I know. I'm nervous that she'll still only sleep 10-10.5 hrs so will actually have less overall sleep and then I won't be able to get her back in a schedule of napping for longer. Am I just being silly? I'm sure I probably am!

So now it seems she is OT tonight. She's banging and thrashing about, being v restless and loud. She's isn't usually like this this early in the night. Maybe the shorter nap will not be the way to go. Or could it be something she adjusts to? Maybe I should have done earlier bedtime?!

I have no great advice but just wanted to say that my ds (22 months) has just started doing exactly this the last fortnight.i have tried reducing nap but he is now overtired and waking through the night which he has never done so I'm going to go back to the original nap and hope it's just a phase that will pass!

I also have a 2yo who likes to go to bed late! Somewhat later than yours but she gets up later too.

You could enforce shorter naps or you could go with her rhythm and let her go to bed at 8.30. Less stressful all round to go with her flow and she gets the same sleep hours in total...

We are all different in how we like to sleep. If I didn't work I'd love an afternoon snooze every day even now!

Dd is often restless but not usually this much this time if the night so that's why I think she is OT. Maybe falling asleep at 8.30/9pm is preferable to this.

another thing I've thought of for my ds 13 mo is that when it's nice and warm and he can run about all day out side in fresh air he'll conk out in the evening.

I THINK but happy to be corrected melatonin is very affected by light - hence light boxes and those dawn simulation lights. I know blind people suffer from a really annoying condition where they sporadically suffer insomnia as our natural body clock is weirdly out of sync with the 24 hour clock. they've been campaigning to get melatonin on prescription.

before electric light we had two sleeps - one for around 4 hours then we'd be awake for a couple of hours, then another 4 hours. An experiment allowing volunteers to only have natural light saw them return to this pattern of sleep.