Stopping the 5.30 wake ups.....help please !

[Shatteredmamma1]

Ok ladies- this is our 'routine' (roughly ) DS
Is 8m old.

Wake up 5.30/5.45(agh)
Milk 6 or 6.15
Breakfast 8
Nap 9-10.30

Lunch 11.30/12
Bottle 1.15 ish
Nap 1.45/2-3.15/3.30

Tea 5pm
Bath 6pm
Bottle 6,30
Bedtime. (Sleep 7-7.15 usually)

Often one bottle overnight 5/6oz

Any tips? Should I make bedtime later, or
earlier even? I sometimes go in with milk at
5.30 and try and get him back to sleep-
Sometimes works for 10-15 minutes but not
reliably. Any practical advice gratefully
received....TIA !

I should add...

1. after 6am is morning to me- before is too early...
2. I don't really want to switch to a Gina Ford regime of cutting out the am nap ( I really think he needs it)
3. I make him wait until 9am for first nap to avoid the 'extension of night sleep'

If someone comes along and says it will get
better in a month or two without me doing
much that will make me very happy!!

Morning nap looks a bit long?

Hi shattered, just seen your post on my thread!!!

Can anyone explain the theory behind too long a morning nap being a problem?

DD having close to 1.5 hours at the mo (partly cos she is so shattered having been up since 5am...) so v much like your LO, Shatteredmama.

Are we meant to wake them after an hour ish?

And how long before it yields results??!! DD is going to be a ball of misery if up at 5 and only given an hour sleep before lunch ... Are you meant to ease into it and cut back graduLly?

Sorry for hijack, OP but it sounds as if we need the sane answers!!! :)

Try a later bed time for a week, if it doesn't work, try something else.

I've discovered that trying things out is the only thing that works.

The morning nap looks fine to me btw, I am firmly in the never wake a sleeping baby camp.

Fwiw, I have shit sleeper and have been through the early wake ups. He doesn't do it now, instead he wakes up loads in the night, and he's 1. I don't know which I prefer.....

Umm... That routine looks pretty normal to me! In fact, if you're not having to get up more than once between 7pm and 5:30am I'd say you're having it easy enough! Sounds an almost identical routine to our one year old - difference is she nearly always wakes more during the night, and we also have a nearly-three year old, and I'm back at work, so catching up on sleep during day not really an option. Sorry didn't come on to moan! Just doesn't look that bad to me, and from the baby's point of view, he is having nearly 11 hours of sleep at night. I would have given my eye teeth for that at the 8 month stage...

That looked pretty normal to me too.

No prob emerald girl - I agree we need the
same answers....and thanks DoItToo -
I'm also in the never wake a sleeping baby
camp but getting conflicting advice from
friends about shortening the morning nap.

Thanks auntie and golddigger -
Interesting to hear your experience.
Although auntie by the time he's had the
wake up and been settled back it's more
like 10 hours which I was thinking wasn't
quite enough. But anyway I'm not
complaining too much, just not looking
forward to going back to work with the
early starts. Thanks everyone for your
answers-it's appreciated.

Oh and it isn't unusual for him to be up
more than once- I just only feed him once.
doitto I'll try the later bedtime. Can't hurt!!

If he's having his meal at 5 and a final bottle at 6.30, he's probably waking up because he's starving at 5.30, however much sleep he needs.

Putting him to bed later is a good start - though remember it's unlikely to work until it's become part of his usual routine - but combine it with a later meal and bottle.

Totally didn't mean to be unsympathetic, being sleep deprived like this is so debilitating. I just meant I empathise, but also that you maybe shouldn't really be hoping for better at this stage. Though, I'm entirely willing to be proved wrong. I'll be watching this thread for any tips myself, as I put off going to sleep for fear of getting too comfortable...

casacastille thanks, I'll try pushing tea
back by 15/30 minutes and bottle to 6.45/7
I think. What does your LO do?

auntie no that's ok- sleep deprivation is
a killer, it's good to get a sense of what is
'Normal' from others. My husband did last
night and he
went to bed a bit later and woke a little
later too...which was nice but not sure if
a one off..
my nephews slept 12 hours from
about 5 months so it's hard not to compare
I think!! I'm just interested in what worked
for others as I find 5.30 tough.

Mine aren't little any more, but at that age they were put to bed at around 8 or 8.30 having had a meal at around 6.30/7 and a final feed at bedtime. It varied though as mine didn't all need the same amount of night time sleep so DD1 went to bed later at that age than DS, for example.

I'm not good with early mornings and sleep deprivation so their whole day-to-day routine was tailored around making sure that that we could all get a good block of sleep together and not have to get up unreasonably early.

Whatever works...

Somethings I've read about/tried:
No sleep before 9am
Morning nap shorter than afternoon
No milk until the time you want them to wake up
Go in to doc when they wake up and tell them it's still sleepy time. Go in and out for as long as you can bear the protesting then get them up
Is dc warm enough?
Can they self settle?
A later bedtime but I'd do it 10 mins for 3-4 nights then another 10 mins etc
I've tried them all! And we still have 5:30 sometimes but in general it is better than it was.

Dc not doc

I'd wondered about a later bedtime too but there is a lot of conflicting advice, a lot of the 'experts' and a lot of lovely MNers say an earlier bedtime will help and a layer bedtime makes it worse...
Can barely keep DD going past 7pm at the mo...
The no sleep before 9am does seem consistent advice though. Does anyone know why it works?

Thanks casacastille.
Thanks also Cnix. Yes he can self settle-
always does for naps and about 50% of
bedtimes-we've had a setback from when
he's been Ill recently so that's not as good
as it was. I'll try pushing things back
gradually. I've switched to a long sleeved
vest with baby gro and 2.5 tog gro bag, he
seems warm enough but I might try some
fleecy baby gros maybe. Thanks for all the
tips- good to hear you've been there and
things are generally better!

They are better almost 7 on Friday and 6:20 yesterday. But on my day for getting up she's chirping at 5:30. So not fair!!!

A shorter morning nap often works because otherwise they use this as an extension of night time sleep if it is too early and too long. If you can manage it, try and move his morning nap gradually from 9-9.30 and then wake him after 45 minutes (1 sleep cycle). You'll only be able to do this in 5 minute increments to avoid total meltdown. Then afternoon nap 3 hours after that (1,1.30 ish) and bedtime as usual. My DD is almost 13 months but goes through bouts of early waking fairly frequently - often with teething.

It might take a while before you start to see some results, but eventually he will start to wake later. The other thing that worked with my DD was simply not to pick her up out of her cot until after 6. As long as the protest wasn't too serious (just whining and intermittent crying) we would leave her until a time we thought acceptable (6) then go in and fling the curtains open and make a big deal of 'morning'.

My twins went through a phase of waking around 5:30 when they were 8 months old, it lasted about 2 weeks. I treated any wakings before 7am as night time. No lights, no talking and resettling in cot.

The reason for a short 30 minute morning sleep is so their afternoon main nap is not disrupted. A baby's dip in energy is around 12-2pm so having their main nap of the day then works naturally for the baby anyway. My twins are 14 months old and are slowly starting to drop their morning nap. It used to be 45 minutes long from 9:15. I now put them down at 9:40 and wake them after 20 minutes regardless of when they fell asleep. They have their afternoon sleep from 12:30-2:30/3pm and this means they are well rested for the afternoon. They have dinner at 4:30pm, bottle at 5:30pm and bedtime is at 6pm. They sleep until around 7:30am so an early bedtime doesn't result in them waking earlier in the mornings.

Within the next month I plan to drop their morning sleep altogether. This might mean an earlier afternoon nap at 12 until they can make it to 12:30pm again.

Yes Cnix - always the way when it's our
turn!
howaboutacuppa I will try moving the am
nap slightly later- that's doable I think-thanks.

neversleepagain - they sleep 13.5 hours
in one go?! That is seriously impressive. I
need to borrow you for a couple of weeks
to teach my one that! Do they eat well?
Have you found that they sleep more the
more mobile they get? Good to hear your
phase only lasted a few weeks. I must admit
things do keep changing so in a couple of
weeks I'm sure it will be different. Thanks
for all the useful tips.

On another note (!) when did everyone drop
the night feeds? Just thinking I might make
an attempt in a month or so as he'll be nearly
10 months then. He has done a few nights
without them so he obviously can do it.
And did you all go cold turkey or reduce /
dilute the amount of milk in a bottle?

howaboutacuppa yes he doesn't whinge
too much for about 30 minutes- just rolling
round the cot- so I do tend to ignore him as
I'm normally lying in bed thinking it's way
too early for me to be awake!! I will start
to make a bigger deal of morning though
that's a good idea.

shatteredmamma, they do

I have been really lucky with two brilliant sleepers but I don't think I would be so lucky the third time round so I may stop at two DC!

They do eat well but I have noticed that they are eating much less lately, between them they are cutting 5 teeth all at once so very grumpy and off their food. They have 9oz cows milk in the morning and 7oz at bedtime. To be honest, they have pretty much been good sleepers from early on so I didn't notice them sleeping more as they got more mobile. What I have noticed is that they get tired more quickly. One minute they are happily cruising around and playing, the next minute they can be screaming their heads off and want to sleep. They can sign sleep, which is helpful :)

I have had a lot of practice with babies. Before my own I was a childminder and looked after 7 babies from when they were 7 months to 3 years old (not all at once I hasten to add). This taught me a lot. I had various parents with different parenting techniques and I quickly learnt what works and what doesn't.

Good luck with your DS.

Haha neversleepagain yes you might be
tempting fate with a third. But some of it
Has got to be down to your techniques as
well as just having good sleepers so you
might be ok! Sure the experience helps
too. The thought of waking him from a
morning sleep isn't attractive but I know a
lot of people do
So there's got to be something to it I guess!
Thanks

Oh and also he did 2 x 45 minute naps
yesterday as we were travelling then slept
7-6! That was good