dropped morning nap - too tired to eat lunch

[Evita]

After much procrastination (much of it on here!) for the last 2 days I've dropped dd's morning nap. She's almost 17 months and her afternoon nap was getting later and later and beginning to interfere with her night's sleep. But previously she would sleep 1-1.5 hours in the morning around 10am, then wake up for lunch about 12ish. Now I've shifted her lunch to 11ish but she's so tired she sits slumped in the high chair and only manages maybe half of what she would normally. Anything I can do about this?

On a more positive note though, she's been having a great 2 + hour sleep after lunch and last night slept her first solid 12 hours in ages. Keeping my fingers crossed ...

Snap , i have the same problem with my ds (14mths). I stopped his morning nap because he then wouldn't go down for his afternoon nap, but got tired way before bed time. He has an excellent sleep of an afternoon now, but struggles to eat even half his lunch.
Sorry, no help, but will be reading replies with interest

Sounds about right Evita
How about organising an activity that will leave her hungry at 11? By that I mean a romp round the park. Then she'll be in the mood for food.

It does take a week or so but they re-adjust to it . Enjoy that unbroken night!

suzywong, so you don't think the 12 hour night was a coincidence? Dare I get my hopes up?!

I have taken her to the park yesterday and today but she was so tired she just wanted me to carry her! After her marathon sleep this afternoon though (2.75 hours yippee) she had wonderful energy for the rest of the day, wasn't tired at bathtime or teatime. It was v. enjoyable.

nutcracker, the only advice I've been given by more experienced mom friends so far is if they are VERY tired and don't eat, to put them to sleep and give a later lunch. But in dd's case I feel she wouldn't sleep that well for long with a totally empty belly and her lunch would be v. late indeed, more like 2pm.

I find that it never works to give let the child have an early long nap, followed by a late lunch. With both of mine that would put them off their suppers, and they'd still be overtired by bedtime. What I have found best is to give an early lunch at 11ish, followed by as long a nap as they want, then a substantial snack when they wake up. If they can't get through to 11, and are desperate for a nap, then I let them have a short nap and wake them after 1/2-1h. Sometimes the early lunch is more of a substantial snack. Dd is nearly 14m, and not quite ready to give up her morning nap, yet not always ready to have one until practically lunchtime. It is such an awkward time, isn't it!

Yes it is! Dd until last weekend had a good morning nap but the afternoon was going all wrong, she was exhausted by 3.30ish but then would sleep til gone 5 and mess up her bedtime, that's why I decided it was time to drop the morning sleep. But lunch has shrunk considerably!

Stick with the early lunch, Evita and she will truly get used to it, it just might take a week or two. If she's eating so little, give her some juice to fill her tummy and then a snack when she wakes up later. Ds used to literally fall asleep in his lunch when he dropped his morning nap (I took a photos of him once ) but after a couple of weeks he got used to it, and had a lovely long after lunch nap, got up at 3 and was knackered again by 7.

I caved in today and gave her a morning nap. She'd woken v. early this morning and I thought she'd never get through til lunchtime. But she didn't seem able to sleep so maybe had started adjusting already?

Also, yesterday she was so absolutely worn out by about 5pm she cried solidly for 45 mins on the bus ont eh way home from seeing a friend. I'm wondering if it's such a good idea to drop the nap. Maybe she woke early this morning because she was so over tired last night?

It's all gone horribly wrong. This morning she woke at 5.30! She hasn't done that in months and months. I'm beginning to wonder why I dropped the nap and am thinking of reverting again to her old regime. Do you think I did it too soon for her? She was absolutely exhausted when I put her to bed last night and I think probably slept v. deeply for the first part of the night and so then woke too early.

I don't think there's a 'right' way to handle this. You know your dd's capabilities, and her tiredness signs, so I'd say that if you feel she needs a nap, and it's too long until any reasonable lunch hour, then give her a short nap. I always found with ds that he slept better for not being over-tired, ie a lot of daytime sleep did not reduce his night-time sleep. With dd the correlation isn't so clear. I think she copes better with a napless morning if she's been fairly physically active and had plenty of snack.

I don't think there's a 'right' way to handle this. You know your dd's capabilities, and her tiredness signs, so I'd say that if you feel she needs a nap, and it's too long until any reasonable lunch hour, then give her a short nap. I always found with ds that he slept better for not being over-tired, ie a lot of daytime sleep did not reduce his night-time sleep. With dd the correlation isn't so clear. I think she copes better with a napless morning if she's been fairly physically active and had plenty of snack.

Same happened here. I gave her a normal breakfast, cereal and toast, and then would give her a banana or malt loaf, or something at about 10.30 /11ish. She'd sleep through what we consider would be lunchtime and I'd just feed her when she got up, sometimes that would be 2.30 -3 ish. Then I'd give her a light tea about 5.30, maybe even 6 and tehn some warm milk and honey just before bed about 7.30 with a bit of toast or something. That way I felt she was getting in enough food and wasn't gping to sleep hungry or anything.

As she's gotton older she can now wait even longer for her nap so we're back to a normal lunchtime. I give her lunch at about 12.12.30 and then she'll go down.

It'll all change again when she goes to play-group. She'll finish there at 12.30 and I just know she'll fall asleep in the car on the way home and miss lunch but hey ho!

Thomcat said it all - I was going to post but nothing left to say now! She'll adjust.

I do go don't I!
I think I post the longest posts out of everyone!
oh dear, and ... oh well!!!!!!!!!!!!

Havn't had time to read all this thread so soryy if I repeat...
This hapened with DD2 - my solution was to bring her lunch forward to 11.30/45 and put her down to sleep at 12/12.15. She then had "afternoon tea" at about 3.30 and supper with us as normal at 6pm.
HTH

sorry if i repeat anything - I would suggest moving her nap later and later (for instance putting her down at 10.30am - then the next day 10.45am) until it is the time you want her to go for a nap in the afternoon.
This way she gets used to the new routine and isnt so shattered.

Sonnet, that's practically what I've been doing, i.e. giving her a much earlier lunch than she used to have, and putting her down after that.

Lyndsey66, I could do what you suggest but then she'd then miss her afternoon nap and would still be tired.

The funny thing is, she's getting in the 1 nap the same total day sleep as she did with 2 naps but she seems v. tired and quite hyper by the early evening which isn't like her. Today I didn't give a morning nap and she flaked out completely tonight again so it will be interesting to see if she wakes ridiculously early again tomorrow.

I agree with prettycandles that when they go to bed well rested and not zonked out they sleep a better night in general.

dd2 dropped her morning nap ages ago. we now have lunch between 11-11.30 as after we dd1 to nursery. on the way back dd2 will fall alseep for an hour or so. i have now started getting dinner ready for 4.30 as dd1 gets so hungrey after nursery. then they have crackers or toast in the evening after bath and getting ready for bed. they both have a milk drink to take to bed and sleep pretty well. tho dd2 has started waking up at 5.30-6am. keep trying to put her bedtime back (currently at 7pm) but she is shattered by then so will start crying if she isnt in bed by then.

misdee, how old was she when she dropped morning nap? Do you think that was when she started waking earlier? Dd was sleeping til 7-7.30 but since I've dropped the nap is waking v. early too. 6.30 today so not quite as bad but then she didn't get to bed til 8 last night. I feel so clueless about these things. Wish they came with a manual ...

she dropped the morning nap long ago, around her first birthday. its just the last week or so she has been up very early but we are also making the transistion between cot and big bed atm. she was awake at 6.30 this morning which is slightly better, slept all night in the double bed without screaming, so i just went to her bed this morning and we dozed for another 30mins.

I've been trying to work errands etc around potential naptimes, in the hope that dd will zizz in the buggy or in the car. It used to work quite well, but has all gone wrong this week: she may doze off for 5-10m, but wakes as soon as I stop - which is pretty useless if I've been walking or driving for 1/2hour already and have arrived at my destination. There's only so many times I can drive around the block without getting dizzy! And today it all went right out of the window - she didn't nap at all. Went down fine at bedtime, though. Just hope she doesn't wake early as a result.

prettycandles, alas my dd NEVER sleeps in the pram. She used to ONLY sleep in the pram but now it has to be in her cot which is a bit of a bind as it ties me to the flat to an extent. We don't have a car but if we did she's probably sleep in that as she does in my mom's car. Yesterday went even more disasterously, she only slept an hour in the middle of the day and by 5pm was in a real state of manic hysteria. She can't cope without enough sleep. Some babies seem to get all drowsy and quite cute but dd gets really edgy and hyper. So I put her to bed at 7 and she was out like a light. She slept til about 6.15 and when I left her with dp this morning she was yawning her head off over breakfast at 8am!

Do you think I should persist with this or should I revert back to her old pattern? I'm keen to persist as I'm hoping to get her a couple of days in nursery soon and I know they only do afternoon sleeps there. Plus it will happen sooner or later won't it?

You said in your first message that your dd was 14 months? How long does she sleep at night now? Do you find she gets hard to manage by the end of the day if she hasn't had enough day sleep? How much sleep does she have in 24 hours?

Sorry to ask so many questions and to sound so anal about all this!

Hey, there's nothing anal about it! I'm a second-timer, and I'm just as bugged by it as first time around. (I wish there was a 'grimacing' emoticon.)

It will happen sooner or later, but the transition period really is a pain in the posterior. DD is phenomenally clingy at the moment, which is weird because she's also physically very confident.

(bother, I'm needed - back soon)

prettycandles, when you talk about 'transition' do you mean she'll start to sleep longer or just get used to sleeping less?

dd too has become incredibly clingy lately, especially during what I have now, fondly (ahem ...) called 'the witching hour' 5.00-6.00 when the slightest little thing sets her off. She would be carried around on my hip like a little princess all evening if I were only a bit bigger and stronger ...

Back again.

I don't think you need to cut out the am nap all in one go. When ds was 12m I started adult ed classes two mornings a week, so he missed his am nap twice a week. He usually fell asleep on the way home, but not for long and not always. The rest of the week he had his am nap as normal. Then I gradually dropped it. Even now, he's 3.5 and still naps in the afternoon, but can cope with missing the nap one or two days in a row.

I don't remember whether ds slept longer at the pm nap when he dropped the am one. The other day dd slept over 3 hours after an 11ish lunch, but she hasn't repeated the feat! She used to sleep 1 - 1.5h am nap, and 1.5 - 2h pm nap, unlike ds who could, and still can, sleep for England, night or day. What I would like her to do, if she no longer needs the am nap, is to sleep for 2-3h in one block, because that's what I think she still needs. Unfortunately, being ready for a nap at 11am (which is what happened today, and is what usually happens now) means that she is unlikely to go down for another nap in the day, so by about 4pm she gets so worked up that I have to either carry her around, or leave her screaming. Children's supper here starts 5 - 5.30pm, bath about 6.15, and bed about 7.15. I'd make bath and bed both a little earlier, but they're dh's main contact with the babies during the week. The bath seems to rejuvenate her, and she becomes her usual cheery self, even if she hasn't napped enough. (It's only on weekends that dh sees what she's really like without enough sleep! )

Fortunately, once she's in bed for the night, we rarely have to go to her again, though we generally hear plenty of groaning and occasionally a little crying. She wakes any time from about 5.45 to 7am, 6.30 being about average.