Gentle Sleep Training - What Next?

[LetThereBeCupcakes]

We have lots of issues with our 9MO's sleep. Briefly (so as not to bore!):

• DS fights naps. Usually only naps for 30 minutes, twice a day.
• I have to feed to sleep. If he doesn't fall asleep having his milk, it's a nightmare to get him off - can take 90 minutes or so of rocking.
• On a good night, he wakes 3 times, and at one of those wakings it takes an hour or more to get him back to sleep. On a bad night it's every hour.

So, after lots of tearful posts, some lovely MNers suggested overtirdeness (which makes a lot of sense - he always looks tired), and to start by really focusing on the naps by any means possible. So on Monday I began letting him sleep on me for his naps. He has gradually napped longer all week - today I had 2 x 90 minute naps out of him. So now can anybody suggest:

• How long should I keep this up? I originally planned on doing it for a week, but am now wondering if I should keep it up until he's reliably having longer naps? How long should I be aiming for?
• When we finish this phase, what should I do? Try moving him to his cot for naps? Both at once or one at a time? Should I stay with him by his cot to re-settle if need be? How do I do it?
• Any ides on helping him settle in his cot? At the moment if I put him in his cot any less than fast asleep he instantly screams and begins thrashing around. I can't do shush/pat as he won't stay still. I'm not happy to let him scream.

I'm not looking for him to STTN necessarily - at the moment I would like for him to nap well in the day and settle better at night (even if that's with my help). Any suggestions?

Thank you

Hi, you posted on my thread about my own nap fighter :)

Two things have helped us get longer naps in the cot, but as I said they aren't successful all of the time and we still struggle getting him off to sleep (the two are often related). Still, a MASSIVE improvement as if I can get him to nap he will now often do over an hour.

The first is the Pantley Dance from no cry nap soln, where you effectively trick the baby into thinking he's being rocked in the cot... We did it very veeeery slowly, starting with putting him down when pretty much asleep. Now some days he will put himself to sleep after 5-10 mins rocking.

The second - also inspired by NCNS - is re-settling when he wakes at 30 mins. Put monitor on max and when he starts to stir, go in and settle him the way you settled him to sleep eg rocking and singing/shushing - even feeding (doesn't work for me). It can be v frustrating especially if it doesn't work as it meant I would often be doing 2 or 3 hours of rocking for an hours sleep some days.

After two or three weeks of doing this I noticed (via monitor) that by the time I got to his room he'd put himself back to sleep. He still does occasional 30 min nap - usually if he is overtired, teething etc.

It's still a long way from perfect but it means I at least have two x 1 hour+ naps some days of the week which when you're used to short naps feels like eternity! I can get so much more done.

I know wake to sleep seems to work for some but not for me as DS' naps could be anything from 15-45 minutes. Might be worth a try though.

Good luck x

Just transfer him into the cot asleep. Dont worry about self settling in there until he's older. That's what I did with ds, just kept putting him in the cot when fast asleep and he got used to it.

I'd let him sleep on you - although try transferring into the cot every now and then.

Does he sleep in a pushchair?

Thanks Beep - I actually own, and have read, NCCS, but managed to miss both of those tips. I'm clearly more sleep deprived than I thought. I'll look them up, they both look like they'll help.

creature the only reason I'd like him to settle himself rather than me transfer him is that I thought it might help him self settle in the night when he wakes, rather than needing me. If that's not the case then I shan't worry! He will sleep in a pushchair, though often wakes himself up after about 20 minutes. Possibly because he usually sleeps on his side and I think he tries to move into that position but obviously can't.

Have the night wakings always been like this? Or could it be sleep regression?

DS usually wakes 2-5 times but most of the time we only need to go in once (and that can take 1.5 hours or more to settle him). The other times he'll self settle but it can take 20 mins or so.

I have to say the day naps don't really seem to have had any impact on his night wakings. In fact when he went through a stage of sleeping through at 6 months or so his naps were pretty rubbish. But him sleeping for two decent naps most days makes looking after him in general much easier.

He's exactly the same as yours in pushchair, will only manage 15 mins sometimes.

How is his feeding? Does he have a lot of wind or signs of a food allergy? As I sometimes think this might be a problem for my DS.

Just to add we still have crap days - DS has woken after a 30 min nap and is determined not to sleep again, and woke up needing to he settled about 5 times between 2 and 7 this morning and I only got in at half midnight

Nights have always been crap. He went through a phase of only waking twice per night when he was about 3 months old but thT only lasted a couple of qeeks. No sign of wind or food intolerance that I can tell.

I just despair really, knowing that this is probably my lot fof the next few years. It breaks my heart that DS will almost certainly be an only child because of all this. I so wanted mor children.

Sorry for typos, am using worlds crapiest tablet!

The thing is you've improved his day sleep. Also you're in the midst of the 9 month sleep regression - so I wouldn't worry about self settling just yet until you're through it. You can give him a chance to self settle - but get him used to the cot first.
I found that self settling for bed came before self settling for naps. I also found that self settling didn't improve night sleep in either of my dc.

My first was a dreadful sleeper - but I still went on to have a second because it doesn't last forever.

Am on the verge of tears reading this thread - both of joy and sadness - going through the exact same thing with my 9 mo DS and been on the brink of doing cc but came here in the hope I could find an alternative as I can't face it.
What's the 9 month sleep regressions?! DS has never slept longer than 2.5 at night before waking & will only go back to sleep if I bf him but it's not hunger just comfort. Also often wakes for 1.5hrsfor no apparent reason even after being fed. Does 9mth sleep regression mean it will eventually get batter on its own?

Hi Rockabilly - sorry you're going through this too. Can't answer your question about the 9 month regression as like your DS, mine has never gone very long anyway. Wouldn't it be lovely if they just slept through one day? It really worries me that we'll end up on one of those "bedtime live" type programmes in a few years' time.

Creature how will we know we're through the 9 month sleep regression? I am in awe of you going on to have a second, I really am.

I'm not having a third though!

Have you both ruled out tongue tie? Can cause night wakings as don't get enough boob and can be linked to food issues.

I will say - my dd did not sleep through (well she still wakes once a night at 22 months) for a long time. I had to make my life easier eg cosleeping and napping in the day plus early bedtimes. I also ruled out causes of night wakings etc.

Info about the 9 month regression

I also had to shift day naps at around 9 months - to two naps at set times in the day (9am and 1pm) as worked better for them.

It's hell at the time - but it will get easier. Take things one day at a time and go easy on yourself.

We have ruled out tongue tie in so far as 2 midwives and 2 HVs both said he was fine. We had pretty serious latch issues early on and TBH I do still wonder. I don't suppose there's much I can do if everybody says he's clear though.

DS has his naps at 9am and 1pm at the moment - he sorted of evolved his own routine and when he has decent length naps at those times he is much happier. I'm probably just feeling it more at the moment as DH is working away so I'm dealing with it all alone. Thanks for the link - will have a look.

Mmmmm I wouldn't trust a MW or HV to recognise TT if it slapped them in the face. Even a trained bf counsellor wasn't sure when I had this with dd. it took a specialist lactation consultant to diagnose it after 12 weeks of misery.

You can wind thoroughly after each feed - I found it was the intake of air which caused wakings.

Thanks so much for the link creature. Explains a LOT! Plus his top two teeth came through the other day! Not thought about tongue tie, will look into it. Defo not going to do any sleep training. Just going to ride it out, every night is different and some are not as bad as others.

creature I have very little faith in my HV, unfortunately. How did you get to see the lactation consultant in the end? I thought I would need a referral but with the HV saying there's nothing wrong I didn't think I'd get one.

I'm thinking about cranial osteopathy now - a few friends have recommended it and the more I think about it the more I realise he will do anything to avoid laying down so I wonder if he's uncomfortable. Perhaps I am clutching at straws but I'm willing to give it a go!

Rock hopefully things will improve for you now the top teeth are through. DS has gone to bed tonight dosed up on calpol as he's been grizzly all day and one of his top teeth looks like it might make an appearance soon.

Have you ruled our reflux? Especially as he doesn't like lying on his back.

The lactation consultant - she was private (I think most are?) - I found her online.