Sleep deprived baby, toddler and parents. Please help!

[NAR4]

Basically toddler and baby both get up a lot during the night and get up for the day very early, despite clearly still being tired. Toddler doesn't sleep during the day and baby not much. Little ones are miserable because they are so tired but I am at a loss as to how I can improve things. Too tired to think straight, please help.

Any help appreciated.

Is there a reason for the waking? Are they up for feeds, or just up for the sake of being up iykwim?

Is the toddler too small for a gro-clock, black out blind and reward clock? That combo helped us for 'sparrows fart' early wakings.

Baby wakes for feeding but it is ridiculous now as he is 7 months and pretty much feeds for half an hour then sleeps for half an hour all night. We mostly co-sleep but he has taken to shunting up the bed and trying to crawl off when he wakes, so not as rest full as it used to be.

Toddler seems to wake for the sake of it. She co-sleeps with us also (which neither my dh or me mind) because she doesn't like being on her own in her bedroom. She mostly re-settles quickly but it is still broken sleep for us, especially on top of the baby waking as well.

We did get a blackout blind for the summer which helped with wanting to get up at 4am but she never stays in bed much past 5.30 despite clearly being tired still. Freddie Frogs (chocolate) are her favourite and we constantly try to reward a good night with one but even though she seems to understand this concept still wakes repeatedly. Have considered a grow clock so maybe should invest in one this weekend. What is the reward clock?

How old is toddler? Because I would argue that there's no way she really gets that a chocolate means later wake up.
I think the cosleeping is the issue - you need to think about dividing them up. Can you set up one in your room, one in another room and you/DH split between the two? So you sleep in baby room and DH with toddler?

How old is toddler? Can you get a double buggy and wheel them both out in the day until they drop off? Even if they don't sleep they're getting rest and strapped in giving you a bit of a break from them. Tiredness can make it harder for them to sleep so getting them off in the daytime might be a good place to start?

So you all sleep in th same bed. Baby is awake for a half hour every hour, toddler wakes up to all this commotion, baby starts crawling all over everyone and everyone ends up awake at silly o'clock?

I would put everyone in their own beds. Like, yesterday. It would be one thing if you were all getting good sleep while co-sleeping but this doesn't seem to be working for anybody.

Each to their own, but personally I would try to get the toddler into her own room. She may not like it initially but I bet my bottom dollar she would sleep better. Could you sit with her until she falls asleep for the first few nights?

Toddler is 2.5 yrs and is very clever. She gets a chocolate for not getting up repeatedly in the night, regardless of what time she gets up in the morning.

I have a double pushchair and take them for an hour long walk after lunch. Your right that it does give me a break but most of the time even the baby doesn't go to sleep.

I think they are so tired that they now can't unwind and settle to sleep at bed time.

Really don't want to go down the route of my dh and me sleeping seperately. Besides, there isn't a full length bed in the toddlers room or space to put one in there. Toddler stopped co-sleeping initially when she was about a year old but started again around 18 months after waking up screaming dozens of times a night, which took ages to calm her down from and was waking my older children ad well.

Trying out sleeping them both in the toddler's room for the week to see if it improves things. Hope baby might sleep for longer periods away from the milk and toddler will find the company comforting. I admit I am rubbish at ever leaving them to cry though.

Toddler does initially go to sleep in her own bed but once dh and me have gone to bed she gets in with us the next time she wakes. Baby waking never seems to wake the toddler, she wakes up seperately herself.

Baby also goes to sleep in his cot initially but used to get in with us when he first woke for a feed after us going to bed. This used to mean I could still snooze while he fed resulting in more sleep for me but now he is far to active and doesn't just go back to sleep when he feeds.

But your toddler wakes up regardless of chocolate. I have a 4 and nearly 2 year old and know that they'd nod if I offered chocolate for not waking but she's not waking deliberately. So pointless.

You only need to sleep seperatly while you get both of them used to sleeping in their own spaces. Surely that's better than shit sleep?

Also your baby probably needs a morning nap and post lunch nap. What is your routine like?

Monday and Friday mornings my toddler is at Playgroup so I get housework done with baby in sling. Tuesday and Thursday morning I do a buggy walk with a group and Wednesday morning my toddler has a dance class. I take them for a buggy walk after lunch, around the village. In the afternoon we go to the park or over the woods or something because it is free time until the school run at 4. Little ones have tea at 5 followed by bath, buggy walk around village and bed between 6.30 and 7.

Last night they both went down to sleep well at 7, but baby woke 7 times for a long feed, was patted back to sleep 3 times and got up at 5. Toddler got up once for the toilet and 2 other times (while sleeping in our bed) and then got up at 5.45. I know what you're saying about sleeping seperately while establishing better sleeping habits, but there is nowhere for an adult to sleep in the other room. Hence we put them both to bed in the other room last night and then let toddler co sleep so she wasn't disturbed by baby. It did mean I had to do all night feeds sat on the toddler bed though.

I know we are stuck in a rut now and can't see a way out. All ideas welcome. Thank you.

You sound knackered, you poor thing. Personally I would night wean the baby and once he was sleeping better (which he would be) put him in the other room. Put toddler to sleep there too; she might come in your room during the night but at least you get some night alone. And if she's waking involuntarily I'd stop the chocolate.

I have a similar problem. Although my toddler sleeps in her own bed and my baby is only 10 weeks old.

I think you really need to work on getting your toddler into her own bed. Could one of you sleep on her bedroom floor? The baby waking up is probably disturbing her.

I used to co sleep with my toddler so I know it's really hard to get them in their own bed. She still wakes up alot at night but not as much as when she was sleeping in our bed.

How do you night wean a breastfed baby?

There isn't enough room to sleep on the floor in my toddlers room. Room is tiny literally has baby wardrobe, junior bed, cot and enough floor space for door to open into.

I cut down gradually - I fed at 7, 11, 3 and 6 and in between cuddled to sleep. After a while I cut down those feeds a minute at a time. DS went from waking hourly to sleeping all night.

That sounds amazing big kids. I am going to try 4 hrly night feeds, starting tonight. Did it cause many tears? I tried this when dd was little and it resulted in her screaming and crying. I felt too mean to stick at it for more than a wk. I had forgotten all about it, it seems so long ago already. Every child is different though. Just want to hear an encouraging story.

No more chocolate bribes now either. It was an act of desperation and wasn't working anyway.

Both went to sleep really quickly and easily in dds room last night. Dh was onboard with the only feed every 4 hrs thing. 7 pm feed and bed, 8.38pm crying to be fed. Dh goes in and spent until 10pm patting, rocking and trying to settle ds, with no success at all. I gave in with dhs encouragement and fed ds again. Decided to go for 3 hrly feeds throughout night but this met the same problem throughout the night. D's woke to be fed, dh goes into settle him but he just screams for however long (hers at a time) until I go into feed him. Is this what normally happens?

Did still gets into our bed at some point in the night but has stopped waking after getting in with us. Still an early riser but I can live with that. I think even though she wasn't waking at the same time as ds he must have been disturbing her still.