last chance for the vomit king!!

[manna]

This must be the third or fourth time I've posted since last summer, but am at the end of my tether now that number two is due in 10 weeks - I must get this sorted, one way or another.

DS is 2, and has been a perfect gf sleeper. he started spontaneously vomiting (no fingers down throat, no crying first, just 'I'm going to be sick' and whump!!) when we put him down last summer. he basically wanted us to stay in the room until he fell asleep, it's a control thing. We've had 3 short periods of this, which we've managed to get out of each time by reassuring him that we're there, telling him he doesn't need to be sick etc. I've read the bit in toddler taming and that worked the first time, but not the second. We're now at the point where we can sit outside the room, with the door open, saying simply 'mummies here' if he crys out, until he drops off. The trouble is, this can take anything between 5 and 30mins! I've tried a night light, too, but didn't make any difference, it's us he wants. ANYWAY - to cut a long story short, we would happily do controlled crying but he vomits almost immediately. We would happily leave him to cry himself off but I can't leave him if he's going to vomit as it's dangerous. How can I cut out the vomiting thing?? Do I need to talk to a child phsychologist? Can I talk to Dr. Christopher Green anywhere on the net? I can't be messing around like this when baby number 2 comes, it's just not going to work - help!!

just bumping you up the list manna!
sounds like a nightmare

very grateful

I never get many responses from this one!!

It can't be my eye catching title - do you think everyone else is as stumped as I am?

Yes, sorry,I'm stumped too, not ignoring you.

message withdrawn

stumped at the moment but thinking hard!! I'm must admit to being puzzled as to how he can be sick without actually doing anything to make himself vomit? Does he do it at any other time? what does christopher green suggest in his book? no rea it for a while? is he upset about baby number 2 coming? perhaps a few more details would help us all

manna, this must be a total nightmare. I don't have direct experience of this but a friend of mind did with her 18 month old. She did something v. similar to what twiglett has suggested. I think it took quite a long time and she had to be totally neutral emotionally and firm. And NEVER deviate from the pattern once she'd begun it. I think, but may be wrong, she read what to do in The Baby Whisperer for toddlers. I'll ask her when I next see her.

What a nightmare for you. My dd went through a phase of doing this, in the day and at night (although she was sticking fingers down throat). She was doing it because she knew it would get attention. I did what Twiglett suggested, going in and changing them/bed but not talking to them at all. My dd just stopped doing it all of a sudden. Have you mentioned it to h.v ????? I told mine and she just noted it down in dd's red book (really helpful).

bumping you up again!
Is it feasible to get him some special PJ's and bedding - tweenies or whoever he is into - and a rug by his bed and say he won't want to be sick on his special tweenie bedding etc? And if he is, follow the advice about changing it as below - to something very boring

Sorry manna, don't have any experience of this

Or have a chat with your GP????

Thats a good idea Lisa, about the bedding

I don't know if my advice will be very popular, but I have found with my dd1 that all the episodes of bad sleeping etc. are just phases that eventually pass, and that you DON'T necessarily make that famous rod for your own back if you give your child what it wants and needs for a while - on the contrary, this might be exactly what will make your child stop! So why not spend some time in the evening sitting/lying with your ds till he goes to sleep, so that he's reassured. Then, after a week or so, just try to leave for a while, say 5 minutes - I say things like 'I just need to go to the loo' or similar. Then, if that works, leave earlier, but maybe promise to be back for another kiss or whatever. It worked for me! Don't panic too much about the arrival of Number 2 yet - I thought everything would fall apart, but dd1 was amazingly understanding and cooperative once dd2 was here, much more so than before she was born - I think fear of the unknown made her play up more than the real thing!

Agree with emkaren, a similar approach worked for me.

I too had an incredible vomiting baby, everytime she went in the cot she got so yupset when I tried to leave she vomited. This went on for weeks and I'm afraid I couldn't stand it, she came into our bed, I tried everything else to no avail. Slept 12 hours solid with us, now 4 and a really good sleeper on her own, weaned her out of our bed with a bed of her own at 14 months and one of us used to lie with her until she dropped off, 10mins max I think she just needed to know we were there. Not much help really but just wanted you to know have been through it. Got so desperate rang GF who suggested the change and lie back down etc with no eye contact. I'd have been going in all night, never mind the washing

thanks everyone.

What we tried was this:

1st stage: lie in there until he fell asleep - we have a daybed in his room - very dangerous for me!

2nd stage: sheet on floor by cot. Bucket by cot. read, prayers, lights out, cuddle on bed in dark, put in cot. Ds says 'I'm going to be sick' I say 'would you like your bucket', very matter of fact, and give it to him. He makes ineffective spitty noises (you gotta laugh) then says 'that's better' I put bucket down, tell him i love him and will be just outside with the door open, then sit on stairs saying, in a very neutral voice 'mummies here' until he drops off.

3rd stage: gradually drop sheet and bucket routine, reply when he says 'I want to be sick' 'no you don't, you'll be fine, mummies just here'.. etc.

Now: read, prayers, cuddle, in cot, night night, outside on the step etc. etc.

So you see, we really have been very scientific about things

For me, it's just breaking the association with the sick thing, seeing as he can do it on demand. I don't mind clearing it up, but I do mind him choking (although I think you may be right about his age twiglet). The few times he has been sick when we didn't know it's been indescribably sad, checking him at around 10pm and seeing him with his head lying in a pool of crusty vomit. He wakes up saying, all pathetically 'mummy, I've been sick', he hasn't even cried when he's done it at the time, just fallen asleep in it. It makes me feel terrible.

ames - he doesn't do it at any other time - not lunch time sleep, only evening. I don't know how he does it, either, but I've seen it with my own eyes, he's a marvel!

imo hv's are useless - I haven't seen mine for over a year. And my doctor - i went for my 26 week check up, and he looked at me like I was mad when I described some stuff that had been going on, then said' but your little boy must be 2 by now - surely that can't be affecting you any more?' He didn't even know i was pregnant, although I've seen him 3/4 times this time and he had my notes in front of him! i thought I might get him to refer me to a child pschycologist, though, if nothing else works.

Twiglett - I think your method is good - controlled crying DESPITE the vomit, not avoiding it because i know he'll vomit. I'll start tonight!

just bymping it up

bumping, even!!

bumping again!
Come on mumsnetters, we must have someone out there with the answer!

manna, I remember where I read something about this now. It WAS in the Baby Whisperer for toddlers and the mom did something v. similar to what you've suggested, i.e. the bucket etc. and it worked. Have you read the bit in that book? It might be helpful to reinforce what your're suggesting, which sounds very good to me.

Good luck!!!

Guess what - I haven't started yet!!
Dh is away until tommorrow and at 7 months pregnant I can't face the 'haul him out of the cot, strip the bed, change sleeping bag, hose him down' etc. thing alone. So - I think I'll start on Thursday!