11 week old wakes every two hours. Sleep training?

[bakedpotato123]

Hi all,

First post here. We have an 11.5 week old who is consistently waking every two hours or so. A few weeks ago he was managing four hours at the beginning of the night then every two from there, but even the first sleep has slipped back to two-and-a-half if we are lucky. It is seriously affecting both me and my husband as well as our relationship. We normally do shifts, but last week I was away with him so I had to do the lot and it got so bad by the end of the week I broke down and seriously suggested putting him up for adoption.

He is a really happy, healthy baby who has no issues feeding or anything. He is mainly breastfed but with one bottle of formula at night (sadly we have had to increase this recently, just to give me a chance to get a break. Plus my milk production seems lower from lack of sleep). When he wakes he feeds, often for just a few minutes, then goes straight back to sleep. I'm sure he is not really hungry every time, but he sticks out for milk (e.g. I have tried giving him his dummy instead but he keeps crying until I feed him).

I would like to try some sleep training in a few weeks time, when he is 14 weeks. I have chosen that time as it is when we will be at home for a while and I don't have much on, so can cope with the initial difficulty.

What would people recommend for sleep training at three-and-a-half months? And does anyone have any advice on things to try to help us in the meantime?

I am sure there are people out there who have stuck with feeding on demand for many more months than this, but please don't judge us for wanting to find a way to train him out of the regular waking. We all have our limits, and we have reached ours.

Thanks in advance!

I'm with TSC. It's a newborn. It's fricking hard work. It grinds you down, makes you do sleep-deprived mistakes like putting the kettle in the fridge, forgetting to put on a bra (lots of experience of that one), etc.
DS was also a shit sleeper for 10 months, we were all over the place
And he had colic so I know all about wanting to chuck.him off the balcony and follow him after.

What you are experiencing with your lo is completely normal for his/her (?) age, you just have to hang in there and perhaps try to get a friend/family member to pop round once a day to give you a 2 hour kip.

Please, please don't consider any kind of sleep training, much too young, still just a small pink bundle of needs.

Have some

Bless you it is a horrible phase & you can well see how sleep deprivation is used as a form of torture can't you?! I'd have signed my life away to get a few hours kip sometimes!

Now-practical stuff.

yes it is a phase, do whatever you need to get through it both of you. give him extra formula feeds if you need to.

Lots of good advice from Oscar- also I would call in any favours you can to get support to make life easier, any friends/family who can do some cooking/washing/ pram pushing for you so you can kip?

Once baby is changed, winded & fed, get him into his pram & get someone to takeover, get him out and let you sleep, often they will settle with a bit of motion or if not a bit of crying will not rattle the person like it will you being so sleep deprived.

Another thing that is often suggested is to see a cranial osteopath. We had a horrendous sleeper in DD2 & she was very colicky, we saw a brilliant chap who VERY gently cradled her head and hardly moved his fingers. The first visit she fell asleep on him within minutes & the next 2 visits was quiet & looking round quite calmly. She fell asleep on the way home every time and improved dramatically, still not a brilliant sleeper but she fed better and slept better & with increasingly long sleeps over teh next few months.

Apparently the National Assoc of Osteopaths would like to see a therapist in every Mat Unit as many babies have problems after rapid deliveries(as with mine) or forceps or traumatic births & early intervention is very succesful.

Big hugs whatever you decide to do, and if all else fails remember the Mothers Mantra "this too shall pass" x

OP I don't have any more advice than you've already been given re your son's sleeping but I wanted to say welcome to MN and keep posting, stick around. . TheSecondComing has her own thread at the moment which may explain her "abrupt" attitude. I imagine on reflection she may realise her comments have been unconstructive and apologise. I hope so, so that you can realise MN is a good place to be.

Babies are supposed to wake up. My ds woke every 2 hours untill he was a year old. It is undoubtably shit but it is what babies do. You cannot, and should not try to sleep train a newborn.

Agree about the cranial osteopath, if you think you have a baby that is particularly difficult to settle. DS would only sleep at night on me for the first 4 months or so, and I took him to a co on a friend's recommendation. After 3 sessions (he would only do 3, said it either worked or it didn't after 3, so wouldn't babies for longer) DS was much better and I was finally able to get him to sleep in his Moses basket at night.

One last piece of advice as someone who left the house in slippers at the weekend ElQuinto styleeee.
In my experience your relationship with DH will suffer more if you are both sleep deprived than if you are a) desperately trying to have some sort of quality time together or b) trying restore some semblance of life pre dc. It's a phase, you'll look back around the nine month mark wondering where the crawling monster came from and suddenly getting enough sleep to consider hiring a babysitter and going out.

With pfb, she used to finally go to sleep around 9 at which point we would cook and eat together, go to bed around 11.30/12 (as per pre DC habits) just in time for the first night feed at 1am. I spent my first mat leave in a fog. Not a good plan. 2nd time around I embraced the dream feed. It forced me upstairs to feed by 11 and I got at least 5 hrs straight after that. Maybe DC2 was just an easier baby though?

Be kind to yourselves. Buy a huge box set of something like the West Wing and resign yourselves to some mindless telly instead of intelligent conversations about anything but the colour of the DC's bowel movements for a bit.
Devise a new set of evening menus for food that can be cooked quickly but is still nutritous.
Have a takeaway as date night
Go out for lunch on the weekend instead of stressing about never going out in the evening. You'll only wish you were in bed anyway
GO TO BED MUCH EARLIER, if the DS isn't keen on sleep, then leave him with your DH and go to bed 3 hrs before the dream feed is due. Wake him up for it anyway [quid pro quo and all that] - he'll feed in his sleep anyway.

I'm sorry, but I'm with TSC as well. It's completely soul destroying and shattering not getting any sleep, and I remember those days with a shudder. But this is the reality with a newborn. We've all been through it. It WILL get easier, I promise. At this age babies change from week to week - in two weeks you'll be on a different schedule altogether.

ok, the approach from my sainted maternity nurse was as follows. Never look at the nights in isolation - take each 24 hours as a complete unit. You need to ensure that a baby is getting enough food and sleep over the 24 hour period. That may mean you need to increase quantities during the day - i guess you're on 6 feeds a day at this point? with a growth spurt, that means they'll be hungry. so get as much in between 6am and 9pm. Sleep - how much activity time (god that sounds borderline mad in the context of such a tiny baby I realise) is he having in the day? maybe it's time for a bit of tummy time / rolling to stimulate him. equally, poor sleeping during the day can cause poor sleeping at night, so make sure he's getting two decent long naps in the day. from memory, mid morning / early afternoon.
and like oscarwilde says above, go to bed early!

I think it would be very hard to sleep train such a young baby, but no harm in seeing if you can start teaching him to self settle a bit. we found trying to settle in the cot rather than rocking and cuddling was a good first step. we did this with shh pat, and white noise and sometimes she would go back off. It is a tough time for your mental health and your relationship but it will get better soon, hang on in there and keep responding to your baby's needs.

Hi all,

Thanks so much for all your replies! Really great to have so much support. Just to respond to a few specific things:

CRANIAL OSTEOPATH
We did actually see one on Monday (which is partly why I was so down on Tuesday morning when it didn't seem to have helped at all). He couldn't find much wrong with him apart from possibly an issue with his sinuses (which he tried to release). Has anyone had any issues with sinuses in a baby? He's quite snuffly generally and the CO said he might not be getting enough oxygen through his nose which could cause him to wake frequently.

CO-SLEEPING/OWN ROOM
We did co-sleep with him most of last week as we were away and realised he had grown out of his basket (he's a really long baby, which is quits surprise as we are both real shorties). It was lovely to be close to him and a bit less disruptive when he woke (although I think this was offset by me not sleeping that well as I was hyper-aware of him). But it didn't make any difference at all to the number of times he woke. He has always been very happy sleeping in his basket at night and I don't feel he is a baby who craves physical contact while he sleeps, so if we co-slept I would feel it was more for us than him. Also, I would worry about him getting used to it and finding it harder to adjust to being in his own room when he is older. I hadn't planned to move him in for a month or so (most friends seem to have moved theirs in between three and four months).

FEEDING
'EasterHoliday' - you asked how often he is feeding. Did you mean six feeds during the day, or through 24 hours? We are still feeding on demand and he is still feeding roughly every two hours during the day. I wonder if this is part of the problem with his frequent night wakings?

SELF SETTLING
He is actually pretty good at this. For his big lunchtime sleep he goes to sleep with a dummy and I sing to him to send him off. But at bedtime I have been putting him down sleepy but still awake after a good feed for a few weeks now, and he generally goes off with no problems. During his night time wakings it really is only milk that will send him back to sleep, though often just a tiny bit, so I am sure he is not really hungry every two hours (and a few weeks ago he was doing one four hour stint at the beginning of the night, so we know he can).

Anyway, last night we divided the night in two and slept shifts, switching about 3am which worked much better. 'oscarwilde' - thanks for your advice. I agree that it will be much better for our relationship to get some sleep and I think it is time to banish any attempts at reverting to our old routines (I think we got a bit over excited to have our evenings back when he started sleeping from about 7pm!).

Thanks all. He's currently snoozing away next to me like a total cherub (I brought him into our room at his 6.30am feed) so it's not all bad!

I found my daughter slept well between 7and 11 and I had to force myself to get some rest then as it was the only block of time there was!

Have you checked for tongue tie? I only ask as it turned out to be the reason my daughters fed every two hours day and night. I had second one snipped and it made so much difference in terms of their ability to get a good feed. May well not be your issue of course!

We co slept for our ease -we had a bedside cot with 3 sides, I don't think anyone claims it makes them wake less, but in our case I could just roll baby over to me and roll her back so I got some sleep. If you're walking into a different room every two hours that is exhausting as you're waking up properly!

Good luck, all of us have been there -it is truly exhausting, and a phase to get through.

TSC is right.
11 week old babies wake up. It's what they do. He will be waking for a reason. You can't and shouldn't sleep train a tiny baby and he should be in his parents' room. If you are struggling to accept it then its your expectations that need to be adjusted, not the baby.

it really is only milk that will send him back to sleep, though often just a tiny bit, so I am sure he is not really hungry every two hours (and a few weeks ago he was doing one four hour stint at the beginning of the night, so we know he can).
He's hungry! He needs milk, even a 'tiny bit'
A few weeks ago, he didn't need milk so often, now he does.

hey tato - I'd suggest that at 12 weeks, on demand feeding is quite "demanding"... he's at an age where you can start to push him out to 3 / 4 hourly LONG / BIG feeds (his stomach is big enough for a large feed rather than constant snacking now). He's in a lovely habit of calling for a snack every two hours night or day so he does. if you start creating a habit of feeding fewer times in each 24 hours but for a longer period / more milk each time, it'll translate into night time as well. One way of doing that is having your husband help out by dealing with him if he grizzles (he doesn't smell of milk) and keeping him waiting for an extra half hour / hour. You can take a micro nap in the meantime!

Go to bed as early as you can! I found that until DS was about 6 months I regularly used to be in bed by 8pm, and even now I am usually tucked up by 9. I cannot understand people who stay up really late and knackered when they have a non sleeping baby! Definitely agree with going out for lunch at weekends, it makes you feel like you're having a life and is a change of scene for you all.

Hope things improve soon xx

Just wanted to say that DS was just like this, and I remember the fog of despair that he would ever, ever sleep for more than 90 minutes in a row. He also didn't sleep in the daytime unless he was moving, so I used to pound the pavements with him in the pram, swigging full-fat coke and wondering if I could just leave him somewhere and go home and sleep... It is SUCH hard work. I was expecting disrupted sleep but no one can prepare you for how sheer exhaustion can turn you into a gibbering wreck of a woman. So have some and a from me.

But I agree that 12 weeks is far too young for sleep training. Just bear in mind though that just because he/she is a crap sleeper now, doesn't mean they always will be. With DS, I used to encourage him to go to sleep in his Moses basket. So, I used to rock/BF him to sleep, but I started to stop before he was fully asleep and put him down drowsy but awake. It didn't always work, and 9/10 times I would have to pick him up again - I never left him to cry - but as time went by the success rate improved. At about 5 months, it just clicked. Now, at 11 months, I can put him down awake & he will settle himself, and unless there is something wrong he will usually sleep for 11-12 hours straight. He stirs in the night, and sometimes even wakes and lies babbling to himself, then goes back to sleep. So there is hope.

Bear in mind that there is a sleep regression at 4 months, where most babies revert back to waking every hour - it's to do with brain development (as DH puts it, they are getting the latest software update!) and is a phase that lasts a few weeks at most.

I totally agree with whoever said to go to bed early. I used to go to bed at 8pm as DS's longest sleep was always 8-12 (he would then wake every 1.5-3 hours all night) - that solid block made a big difference. And accept as much help as you can in the daytime - MIL used to push DS out in his pram some afternoons so I could sleep.

To coin a much-used phrase - this too shall pass. It's normal, and it's normal to feel the way that you do, but I promise that it won't be forever.

I think this is normal, exhausting bit normal.

Have a look at what you can do to make your life easier, take him to bed and have a nap together in the daytime.

You say he fed just as often when in your bed, well yes as he is hungry true thing about co-sleepignis once they and you at used to to try can latch on and feed wihtotu you or them really waking up properly.

The bottom line is he is far too young for sleep training, it's normal for him to be hungry, there is a picture I saw being shared on fb showing how big a babies tummy is, it really.ly makes you realize why they need feeding so often!

Have a think about what cha yes you can make so you can get some rest, this will pass.

And yes go to bed early, I did this with my first two/three and then got I to bad habits of staying up late with no4 and no5, I had to male ,myself go to bed early, threy say sleep before midnight is key to help you feel more rested.

I don't think it really clicked with me until I sat down with the famous "Red book" one day and looked at the growth charts properly. Take a look at the first two years growth plan. Even since your DS has been born, he's probably nearly doubled in size? There's a near vertical growth trajectory up to 9 months and then it starts to slow slightly.

Glad you guys had a better night.

Echo tsc.
However, bf on demand is quite hard work - I've bf two kids. Op you are doing really well be proud of yourself. It will get easier

Just a little update: we had moved from swaddling to a grobag a week or so ago, but on a hunch two nights ago I went back to swaddling and he was straight back into his old routine of managing 4+ hours at the beginning, then three hours or so. So that may have been the issue all along! The trouble is, we moved him to a gro bag because he was getting too big for his swaddle, so now I need to find a swaddle that fits....

Thanks for all your help!