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Can someone help me think through current sleep issues with DS (12 months) please?

15 replies

Judyandherdreamofhorses · 10/07/2013 21:01

I've posted a bit before, under a few name changes I think, about DS. He is DC2 and his sister was similar. He's been a terrible sleeper, frequent (2 hourly usually) night waking and feeding, infrequent and very short naps, even in pram, sling or car.

It all hit crisis point about 6 weeks ago when he was waking every hour, taking a 20 minute bf, then a 20 minute cuddle, before waking up 20 minutes later.

So I began sleep training. At first, it was really successful. I got him to self settle by stopping feeding to sleep, although I continued with the night feeds, just making sure he was awake each time I put him in his cot. He got better and better and started having proper daytime naps in his cot, and only waking once in the night.

About two weeks ago, the bedtimes started getting ridiculous. I'd been staying with him till he fell asleep, but he stopped doing that (learned to stand up) and was taking over an hour to fall asleep.

I did controlled crying. The first night, the longest he cried for was 7 minutes. After that he didn't really cry at bedtime. During the night, if he woke, he just needed picking up and putting straight back. I was getting an almost full night's sleep and felt amazing!

That lasted about 10 days. Now, for a few nights, he's screamed blue murder at bedtime. Keeps asking for more stories, more milk, then howling if I begin to sing his lullaby. Tonight, it took over an hour to get him to sleep (controlled crying, although I don't let him cry longer than 8 minutes because I can't). And he woke up an hour later and demanded a feed. I fed him, because he was hot and sweaty and miserable.

I feel like I've lost my way really. I don't want to end up back at the frequent night feeding, but find it really hard to deny him, even more now I think because he tells me so emphatically what he wants. The last few nights I've fed him once or twice. And he wakes very early, and very grumpy, too.

Any ideas what I should be doing? Thanks.

OP posts:
MistyB · 10/07/2013 21:13

Well done on your amazing progress!! You are really starting to communicate with him and he with you! Now you just need to be brief, consistent and repetitive! And repeat!!

Write down what you want to happen. Then write down what actually happens. This will show you when you start to get off track and what progress you are making.

Tell your DS what is going to happen at bed time (including if you start crying, I will not continue with your story / lullaby) and what will happen during the night. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Shush, pat, shush, pat.

Can you set up a lamp on a timer switch so he knows when 'morning' is, he is a bit young for this but he sounds like he has quite a good idea what it going on!!

Do you feed during the day? And if so, would you consider dropping the night feeds altogether as it is confusing that on some wakings he will be fed and some he will not?

It will not be completely fixed in two weeks and you may have to keep taking steps back to go forward again but looking back at how things were a few weeks before can help keep you motivated. Somehow, you feel worse when you start to get a bit of sleep and then loose it again, than when you are in the depths of extreme sleep deprivation.

Judyandherdreamofhorses · 10/07/2013 21:20

Thank you. I know I need to drop his night feeds altogether really (he has about 4 daytime feeds), and thought we'd begin to achieve this just because he wasn't waking and asking to feed. But now he is. And I find it so bloody hard to resist his sad little face and desperate request! And when I'm knackered, but have had to get out of bed anyway, it's probably the easiest option.

So. Being strong. If he wakes in the night I'll cuddle and put him back in his cot once he's calm. May need controlled crying.

What time should 'morning' be realistically? I feel like before 6am isn't!

I probably can't do much until after the weekend as we're going to be away with relatives for a funeral. Weirdly, we were away for the same reason (different person!) 6 weeks ago at the last really bad time. I started the 'training' in a hotel room and travel cot! It was vital for my sanity.

OP posts:
MistyB · 10/07/2013 21:29

What time is he currently getting up for the day (even if grumpy!!)? Set it around that time, then gradually make it later. 6am for poor sleepers is fantastic!!! Anything else is a lie in! (I know it is not in the real world but heh ho!!)

maja00 · 10/07/2013 21:35

I would keep the bedtime routine really strict - milk, 2 stories, 1 song (or whatever it is you do) and never deviate.

Same with night feeds - if there is no more milk in the night then there's no more milk. You don't want to inadvertantly send a message that there might be milk if you cry long/hard enough. I would offer water (or even put it in a non-spill cup in his bed) in this heat though.

MistyB · 10/07/2013 21:35

He might be feeling your stress about the funeral. Tell him it is stressful but you will be OK and he can go back to sleep without the need to keep you company, much as you love his company, what you need more than anything is sleep!! (sometimes humour in the dark dead of night can make things a bit easier!)

Judyandherdreamofhorses · 10/07/2013 21:39

If he wakes and I feed him around 5am ish, he lasts till about 6.30. I'm happy to get him up then. It's quite irregular to be honest. But when he wakes grumpy, it's just a long (whiny!) drag to get him through to nap time. He wants to nap before 9am but I try to make him last longer as on DD's preschool days we get home at 9.30 and he goes in his cot then. Sometimes naps for up to two hours now, in the morning. If he naps too early, it's much shorter.

Sorry, long waffle. Sleep deprived again!

OP posts:
MistyB · 10/07/2013 22:25

It will get better!!! Could you go for 5:30 before feeding but get him up then? Short morning nap, long afternoon nap will eventually lead to better night sleep and slightly later mornings? But one step at a time. If 5:00 feed gets you those precious early morning zzzzz's till 6:30, go with that for now until the nights get better.

Judyandherdreamofhorses · 10/07/2013 23:57

I'm trying to resist feeding now. Unfortunately, the whole street will be awake as all the windows are open.

He guzzled most of a sippy cup of water, which might have just been for the novelty value maybe he really needed it. Still asked for milk after though.

Seems to be calming down now. I daren't open my creaky bedroom door though...

OP posts:
MistyB · 11/07/2013 08:31

How did the rest of the night go?

Judyandherdreamofhorses · 11/07/2013 09:40

He woke the whole street a couple of times. Drank quite a lot of water. I relented at 4.45 and fed him, and he went straight back to sleep after that till 7. Not a great night, as lots of loud crying, but okay.

OP posts:
Judyandherdreamofhorses · 11/07/2013 10:16

Misty, my new guru? Should I be trying to switch his maps round then? He has a long morning one, up to two hours (since the 'intervention' last month) and then a short afternoon one, sometimes in the car on school run or something.

OP posts:
MistyB · 11/07/2013 12:11

Bed time to 4:45 without a feed!! Set that as your line in the sand for now. And back to sleep with water!! Result! (My 4 year old still wakes for water, you can't deny his thirst I think!)

I wish I was a guru, sadly just very experienced with difficult sleepers!

I don't know for sure about the naps as all children are different but it is what most of the experts aim for / recommend and there must be something to do with biorhythms in it.

It's not worth killing yourself to get the day naps by the book but in my experience, a good middle of the day nap led to better nights and a short morning nap disassociates night from day more and can improve early wakings.

Judyandherdreamofhorses · 11/07/2013 12:30

The morning nap is a bit restrictive, but it's last school week next week so I can start juggling them round a bit. It's hard when I have to do school pick up at 1pm, but it'll be 3pm after the summer so he can sleep till then.

I should be pleased with the night. If only DH hadn't been grumbling about the noise! Seeing as I'm not feeding, however, he can do it himself if he thinks he can do a better job!

OP posts:
nextphase · 11/07/2013 12:40

The deterioration may be linked to the heat. My two poor sleepers hvae been even worse these past few nights.

I've often heard long nap to be the last nap, as this is the last to dissapear! ie when he stops his mornign nap, your left with just the short afternoon nap!

Would he sleep in the pushchair? I used to put DS2 in pushchair (30 mins before we were going to leave if required), and let him sleep til we were back home with DS1, and then wake him. Gave a shoer nap, and then we had a long one at lunch. Might that work.

If he can nap for 2 hrs, what is different in the morning to the 20 mins he will sleep for at night. Can you replicate 9am conditions that lead to 2 hr sleep cycles at night? For DS1, this meant light on. He would sleep for 2 hrs in the daylight, but we got to walking every 40 mins at night. Put a night light on, and magic, 2 hr blocks at night from then onwards. Bliss!

Good luck. You must be shattered.

freelancegirl · 12/07/2013 11:13

I have a non sleeping 12mo who until 2 weeks ago was waking every half hour sometimes until after midnight then every 2 hours after that. Flippin exhausting. There was no down time. I'd managed to get him to spend at least an hour or so in his cot (until 11m we had resorted to cosleeping and feeding back to sleep) a couple of weeks previously but in the end we bit the bullet and had a consultation with Andrea Grace. Within two nights he was doing 5 hour stretches, with 4 nights ten hour stretches! A week and a half later he's not going through the whole night (although yes he is officially STTN) but compared to where we were before its incredible. He will go to sleep around 7.30-8.30 and most nights stay asleep in his cot in his own room until a wake at 4am. Wake for the day usually happens around 6.30, although I'd like that to be later.

What she told me wasn't rocket science but was invaluable for knowing I was doing the right thing for my DS rather than muddling together a plan from books as I was previously doing. We were confusing DS by sometimes feeding on wake ups and sometimes not. The key is to stop feeding completely at night. Not only don't they need it any more but also it will give them a slight blood sugar rise. That bit was a bit of a light bulb moment for me. So basically she said:

Bath. Then dress and feed in room
Look through the same picture book after bath every night
Lights on until put in cot - do not let him feed to sleep as the book will become the sleep cue not feed
Keep him in the cot and don't pick up (unless ill or really really hysterical obviously)
Cuddle him over the bars as he stands - first night might take a long time (our first night took an hour and a half)
Do not feed until 7am - each wake up cuddle over the bars until asleep
When you feed at 7am make sure morning clearly demarked - curtains open, go downstairs to feed
After 3 nights of this start gradual withdrawal

Bedtime routine should be started roughly three hours after wakes from last nap.

Alternatively have a consultation with Andrea Grace if you can cobble the money together. It's so worth it for the sleep!!

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