A confession and plea for advice

[MrsDoolittle]

I will confess to being a smug mummy in the past Dd who is now 2, slept like a dream from the start. I was often surprised when I was told I didn't look atall exhausted so soon after she was born, I wasn't. I know many would rather not believe this but she would and still does go to bed without so much as a sob no word of a lie.

However, I am being punished for this conceit.
Ds is 16 weeks old and is, to my mind, a nightmare. Don't get me wrong, I love in the same all-encompassing way I love dd, but Boy is he hard work!

Not one for routines I have never tried but ds seems to disagree with me. No matter where I am, friends, supermarket, at home, ds wll start fussing at 10.30 - I could set my watch by him, and if he's not asleep by 11am he is all out bawling. He'll usually be awake for a midday feed and then he'll be fussing for asleep again by 1pm.
This morning I was walking around Sainsbury's completely unaware of the time and ds dropped asleep in my arms - it was 11am.

Anyway, all this leads to the fact he's not letting me sleep at night. He goes down at 7pm following a feed no problem. He wakes when ds and I go to bed, no problem and I'll give him another good feed. BUT he will then wake at 1am, 3am and 5am!!! If he was to wake at 1.30am then he would wake 3.30am and 5.30am. I can't seem to shift this pattern whatever I do. I really need to because I am knackered, really really knackered. There is noone I can hand him over to and dh just can't settle him. I know if I asked he would refuse.

I just can't seem to see a light of the tunnel at the moment as this night time feeding seems to have become habitual, although I am suspicious that he doesn't need feeding.

Sounds about right to me. You was obviously very lucky with your ds :)

Please don't say that

i smpathise, my ds1 was a star and was sleeping through at 6 weeks. ds2 is up more during night though i have to admit not nearlyas much as you one. In the begining he was 2 hourly overnight but that has now had settled to once or twice.

I remember being in this sort of situation with DD. Just couldn't drop one of the night feeds. But for me at the time it wasn't too bad because DS had been such an awful sleeper -wouldn't settle without hours of wandering around the house. Although by 6 months he was sleeping though 7.45 -5.30. And DD didn't. Unfortunately it was only time that sorted her out. And yes I think it was habit. Although I think it was only twice through the night rather than your 3 times.

It won't last forever. Probably

No I am sorry you are getting bugger all sleep. It sounds dreadful. I remember it well. I don't think there is anything you are doing wrong, and probably very little you can do to change things. By the time you establish a change with this age group they are doing something different anyway.

I will go and get my trusty sleep related links out, but really, at this age, just try to live through it and remember what wonderful care and nutrition you are providing for him.

Yes, I too think you were very lucky. I had a modicum of hell with both of mine. DD2 now three and a half, has only stopped waking me in the night (every night) in the past 3 weeks. Her big sis was about the same age - altho both slept wonderfully until 9 months

So count yerself lucky woman!!

Sorry, how could I not empathise with another mother who has so little sleep. Will go and slap myself.

It is hard, so bloody hard... and I hope the mist clears for you soon.

\link{http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070300.asp\Here's} quite a thorough one

Probably more for older night wakers but some good stuff \link{http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070800.asp\here}

Yes but feistybird at least you had the first 9 months. When DS was a baby I was trawling up and down the landing with him trying to settle him because (due to pain from delivery) I could not sit up in bed with him. So although when DD was a newborn she was feeding 2 hourly through the night the fact that she would go straight back in her cot was a miracle to me.

Although have to say now that DS has not disturbed me even once in the night for months. And even wakes up and plays for an hour in the mornings without bothering me. And DD probably does a straight 11.5-12 hours 5 nights a week.

Aaah MrsD - he's only little, and it WILL pass

(that's probably no help at all is it?)

hate to say this but you are being punished for being smug...

I once upon a time had three little girls, perfect little girls too .

i would visit friends with boys who would be noisy, messy, hit my DD's, and be thoroughly horrid. I would watch all this and think it all down to their mummies lack of discipline (and they were my friends too, so shame on me for that).

I then fell pregnant with a boy, and said friends (who by then had figured of my smugness...lol) wished upon me a boy just like theirs (a normal boy in other words!!)

and what did I have.......

a BOY who filled all their wishes and who drove me to distraction, never slept, and was never 'perfect' like my girls. A proper boy

I even wished to bury him in the garden too, several times

and to top off my smugness totally I had another one.......:(

now...I wouldn't swap them for the world, but the very tiny years of them both were bloody hard and totally unlike the girls had been....served me right completely.

Not that this helps you much now of course, but I promise you that there will come a day when everything will slot into place and you will begin to love the differences that they both have.

If it is any concelation, my perfect DD's now have hormones and are thoroughly hidious with them at times, yet the boys are totally loving and gorgeous (when they not stir crazy of course.)

Oh heck! I am supposed to be going back to work in September - I won't last 5 minutes.

But I do so love, love, love him for every little smile and glint in his eye.

BUT I WISH HE WOULD LET ME SLEEP.

And I am concerned about going back to work.

So you don't think weaning him him would help?

I know, I know. You are all going to say "NO!"

my dd loved having a routine, and there are plenty of baby books willing to offer you one. try to keep him awake a little longer in the day - dd loved being pushed over bumpy lanes at high speed! then she slept really well at night. i know what current thinking is about weaning, and talk to your hv, but dd was desperate for food at 10 weeks! i held out until 14 weeks. you could try the hungry baby stuff at bed time, that might help, but phse it in, it's quite heavy on little tummies.

also, i went to bed at 9, dh fed her at 11, then brought her to me to settle, but it really helped having that extra 2 hours sleep.

MrsD - September is ages away. Try not to worry. I went back to work when DS was 15 weeks and on a similar routine and coped. Although admittedly I didn't have a toddler as well. He really could easily have got out of it by then. As I said at 15 weeks DS was easily waking me up 3x a night but at 6 months (like yours will be) he was sleeping through 10 hours. OK he was waking up early but if I needed to I could go to bed early.

just a quickie on the weaning front - my ds slept like a dream until we started on the solids (at around 5 months) then between pooey nappies and protracted sessions of top of the lungs singing / chatting and generally wanging round his cot like a maniac, sleeping through is deffo a thing of the past !!! Don't do it!!!!

Sorry to be doommonger but ds did this (and worse) until about 7 months old. Then he started waking once only at about 2/3am
At this point we had stopped the late evening feed (11pm) as we were having to wake him up to feed him and he was still waking at 3am anyway.

5am doesn't count as feed wake-up in this house, ds's normal wake-up time is between 5am and 6am. 14 days on holiday of him going to sleep at 9/9.30pm instead of his usual 8pm made no difference at all to this wake-up time, if anything it got earlier as the holiday progressed.

Ds is also a nightmare when he doesn't get his naps, though at 16 weeks consider yourself lucky that your ds fell asleep in the supermarket in your arms, ds would only have done this after a great deal of crying.

I hate to tell you that ds cries before going to bed even now at 18 months old. Dh and I were discussing the other day how we can't believe
that some babies don't do this but then I suppose they really are all different!!

The plus is he did improve. I do feel for you, those days were terrible. He finally slept 7pm-5am for the first time at 11 months old though not consistently until he was over a year old.

He is a beautiful boy though

Oh dear Lazycow. This is just it, dd was absolutely nothing like this. I've been thinking this little lad is a deviant but it apperas he is in fact, closer to normal.
I have to stop this 3.30am waking though, somehow. Like you he has his fixed times and what ever time he goes to bed now, makes no difference. he's asleep now for his nap and he will probably go atleast 2 ours.

I am not sure weaning him is this answer either as I tend to feel the problem at night is habit. I mean, I feed him at 8 in the morning again at 11 or 12 after his nap, then at 4pm after his long nap and then to settle at 7pm. Then he'll got to 10.30 perhaps 11pm and then it's the frquent waking.

some people recommend giving boiled water, or sugar water to lesson the habit of waking - they jsut give up, or just pat them back to sleep. i never did that - wasn't happy about the sugar water idea. you do still have another 3 months for this to change, so don't worry too much just now.

He woke up at 5 this morning gurgling and smiling happily.
I felt like I've got sand in my eyes and cotton wool for a brain.

I look like I have sand in my eyes and cotton wool for a brain.

I wish I had some answers for you MrsD. I think with ds that he needed his day sleep so much because he wasn't really getting enough sleep at night.

Though I never really solved the problem I did find his night sleep improved when I started to be more consistent in his routine. I was never one for routines but my ds seems to thrive on one but was unable set his own with regard to sleep as though he got tired at the same times each day he had real trouble falling asleep unless the stimulation levels were low. He was an easily overstimulated but also easily bored baby who hated falling asleep.

He improved a little at 7 months old when I made sure most of his naps were at home though the improvement may have been co-incidence - who knows!! You may find that if your ds sleeps well in the pushchair as well as the cot (my ds never did) that this isn't too much of a problem. Just make sure you put him somewhere he can sleep at the right times. I did get so sick of living by my watch. I can't imagine ever 'forgetting the time' with my ds. Only yesterday we were at the bus stop and he started getting really upset and I realised he needed lunch. I tried the banana route which he ate a bit of but started to throw away. Then I got out my emergency jar and his eyes lit up. Several missed buses and a very messy toddler later, I had a happy child but was a little late for my appointment.

I know that his childminder has a much stricter routine with him than I do because of child runs etc (it's not in my nature!!) and he generally is less inclined to cry, sleeps better and even eats better with her (though he eats pretty well generally)

I did also try a cranial osteopath and his major sleep improvement did coincide with a few days after his last treatment but again he was treated for over a month (once a week) before I saw any improvement so that again may have been a coincidence.

sounds like a 16 weeks old baby to me

does your lo go to sleep during a feed or does he go to sleep by himself? If he feeds to sleep each time it means he is now dependant on feeding to get into a deep sleep - which is why he looks for food every 2 hours in the early morning. Your best bet is to work on him getting to sleep independantly of the bottle/breast (you never said which you were doing) by letting him feed until he is sleepy but not quite there and then put him in the cot and let him get to sleep by himself. My dd was waking once at night at this age and my rule for nighttime (at this age)was that I would only feed her if at least 4 hours had passed since the last feed. If she had not gone 4 hours I would settle her back without a feed. It does sound like habit more than hunger to me.

Your lo is also showing you what he would like his routine to be i.e. if he is getting fussy for a nap at 10.30am then put him for a sleep at that time - the same goes for his fussiness in the afternoon. (my dd was still only going about 2 hours between naps at this age and that is quite normal).

p.s. my dd never seemed to settle very well for dh until she was quite a bit older but thats only because we persevered with him going to her when she cried - he is her dad after all and she will come to no harm with him (although she was a bit cross!)

Routine is your answer. My dd also slept like a dream and I have a constant battle with ds, sleepwise and everything else!

What you have to do is this, he is only 17 weeks old? I'm going to sound like GF now although I don't mean to. If you get him up at 7am, let him have a 20-25minute nap at 10am. Then after dinner give him 2 hours - 12.30-2.30 say. Don't let him sleep after 3pm if you can help it. Then put him to bed at 7pm.

Night wakings might go on a bit yet. My ds was 8 months before he slept though the night. He was a big baby and I was bf, but as soon as I put him solely on the bottle he started sleeping much better. When you feed him, don't give him any stimulation, no talking to him. Try not to turn lights on. Just feed him and then put him down again.

After about 3 days if you stick to this routine it should start to work. When ds was 5 months we dropped the morning nap, but we did this gradually. He is now 2.5 and he still has an hour in the afternoon.

Hope some of this helps!