How do I teach a 4 month old to self settle?

[CantSleepWontSleep]

I think DD is a bit behind her peers in her sleeping, due largely to assorted issues which are now resolved/being managed (head compression from birth, colic and cows milk protein intolerance).

She now has a bedtime routine (bath, breastfeed, bed) and goes to bed between 8 and 8:30pm most nights. In order to get her to sleep, however, I have to feed her until she has dropped off, and then very carefully transfer her to her cot (often takes a few attempts to succeed without waking her).

During the day the only way we can get her to sleep is by taking her for a walk in her pushchair with her suncover down so that it is reasonably dark and there are no distractions.

Last night she went to bed at 8 and woke again at 8:40. I left her for a few minutes, but when she started shouting/crying (in a way that I know means she won't stop) I went to her and spent 15 mins settling her. I was quite proud of myself as I managed this without offering the breast at all! She then slept for 6 hours (the best stint she's done in weeks!), so obviously wasn't hungry when she woke.

So my question is, how can I get her to settle herself back off to sleep when she wakes in the night, and to settle herself to sleep during the day without needing a walk?

Ok, I'm asking this in a really really nice way, but why do you want her to self settle?

She's really little. Its completely natural for her to want to be fed/rocked/pushchaired to sleep. Its how she knows its safe to sleep-because there's someone else around doing something.

There is, AFAIK, no correlation between being "behind" in sleeping at 4 months and later poor sleeping. At 4 months my ds was identical to your dd, only he had no routine at all! At 2 1/2 he sleeps like a log. My dd is going the same way, is only now at 11 months just starting to get herself off w/o bf.

The only reason to do this IMO is if you are knackered and need a break. Don't worry about your dd peers! Theres plenty of time for that!

If you are knackered I personally would suggest sling carrying and co-sleeping and being super-super nice to yourself. If that isn't your style though, just go for the being nice to yourself! Do you have anyone else to help?

Hi

Are you familiar with the Baby Whisperer. She has a lot for good gentle sleep strategies for babies of different ages. I think the technique she uses for babies 4-6mnths is Pick Up Put Down. She has a website which deals with a range of issues from birth to toddlerhood, as well has several books she wrote.

Here is her webiste:
www.babywhisperer.com/smf/

And this link sure help example the PU/PD method.

www.babywhisperer.com/smf/index.php?topic=57333.0

Also, if you look at the 'Props' section there should be some help in weaning her for the "feeding to sleep" issue.

Hope it helps.

oops, I mean weaning OFF

Cantsleepwontsleep - first of all forget the peers. If another mum brags about her baby sleeping through the night, smile politely and forget it. People often lie you know!

I can really sypathise as this sounds exactly like my dd at 4 months (she's now just over 6 months). FWIW I found the following helpful:

I established 2 daytime naps, 1 @ around 9.30 and an afternoon nap @ around 2. DD now sleeps for about an hour during these times. I close the curtain and give her her teddy and she drops off. I would also suggest putting your dd to bed a bit earlier, maybe even as early as 6.30/7. I know it's tempting to think if you put them a bit later they'll sleep later, but I think if they get overtired it's counterproductive and then get hysterical when you put them down.

OK, the crying at night. What I did, was the pick up/put down thing. After her bath, I put her in a fresh nappy, put some nice lavender cream all over her little body, put her in her babygro, give her a breastfeed and settle her in with her teddy. At first she cried, then I went in, cuddled her til she was calm and went out again. And so on and so on, just leaving the gaps between picking her up longer. It takes about a week, but it's worth it in the end. Now she cries to me to go to bed!

But she still doesn't quite sleep through the night, but at least me and dh get our evenings to ourselves and she seems more settled having some structure to her day. But don't let it become an obsessive Gina Ford type ritual, when dd is ill or teething, it often goes out the window.

Good luck, let us know how you get on!

Thanks for all the responses so far ladies.

Fillyjonks - because these are the only ways to settle her, it can be very difficult when we are not in a position to do them - eg at a friends the other day she went into meltdown because I couldn't take her for a walk when she was tired. In the end I had to swaddle her, put her in her car seat, throw a blanket over the whole ensemble (to block out light/stimuli) and rock the car seat. Also when it is raining it is difficult to walk.

I also definitely qualify as knackered most of the time! I go to bed within half an hour of her every night, so I have no evenings anymore, which I guess I can live with. The problem at night is more the frequency with which I have to tend to her. It can be as often as 6 times (although that many is rare). Usually I have to get up to her 3-4 times a night.

I don't have any help during the week as DH works/lives abroad, and he doesn't get up in the night when he is here on the basis that she won't take a bottle, so if she wants feeding then only I can do it.

I did try co-sleeping with her, but she doesn't settle for any length of time without being swaddled, and I won't co-sleep when she is like this in case I throw the duvet over her and she has no way at all to get it off.

CADS - hi again! Yes, I am familiar with the baby whisperer - I have one of her books, and introduced the bedtime routine after reading a snippet of another one at a friends recently. Have just had a quick read of the pupd link you provided, and it sounds quite similar to what I did last night, so perhaps I should continue to use that until she gets used to it, and hopefully starts to settle quicker.

bl0ndie - that your DD will just drop off when you close the curtain and give her her teddy! Did she do this straight away, or did you have to use additional methods initially?

DD really is happy as larry after 8-9 hrs sleep, so I do think that putting her down as early as 7 at the moment would be counterproductive, as we'd be up again by 5am (she currently gets up at 6 most days)!! She does tend to have a short nap earlyish evening though, so isn't overtired when she goes to bed.

I see that your DD only has 2 hours of naps during the day - how many hours does she get at night? If I had to guestimate I would say that DD is tending to do about 3 hrs of naps during the day, plus 8-9 hours at night. Have you found that she has shifted more from daytime to night time sleep over the last couple of months?

Have you tried pushing her buggy back and forth in the house, preferably over an object like a flat slipper? That simulated the pavement. Another trick is laying a light muslin over the face which makes them shut their eyes and they fall asleep really quickly (probably a law against that one now )

BTW I always breastfed my babies to sleep. I never had any sleeping problems when they were olderso I don't actually agree babies need to be able tosettle themselves to sleep at this age

cantsleep: your baby is NORMAL.

This is normal.

You really need to write off the first year in terms of your own time/sleep/evenings. Once you've accepted this, it's a lot easier to deal with the baby. :)

Going out with baby/children to friends houses will be a NIGHTMARE at sleep time regardless of what methods you use. That's just the way it is unfortunately.

You are doing the right thing in getting early nights.

She is quite normal - the babies who are NOT normal are those who are happy to lie by themselves in dark rooms pondering the mysteries of the universe while they quietly drop off to sleep for 12 hours.

the advice on here is brilliant. Just to add do you have a black out blind? Also do you use a cot mobile as the lullaby sound might make her associate the music with sleep time

I agree, she is very very small and although I am sure you are worn out, this is also natural when you have a tiny baby. It's natural and normal and desirable for your baby to go to sleep with your help - breastfeeding, cuddling, and rocking are all excellent ways to help a baby to sleep. Breastmilk contains substances to help your baby sleep, so nature has designed breastfeeding as a sleep aid - you are doing the right thing here :)

Most baby gurus these days seem totally hung up about getting a rigid routine in place right from the start, as if what a baby is doing now is what they are going to be doing for the rest of their lives. If your baby finds it easiest to go to sleep in the pram now, this does not mean she will need you to do this forever. You and she will find different ways as she grows and needs different things.

Please please try not to compare with her peers. It's crazy to rate a 4 month old's progress with sleeping as if it is some sort of developmental skill. All babies are different and some parents find different styles of parenting suit them better and have wonderful advantages for them and their children. There's a whole world out there of parents rocking and feeding their children to sleep because they like it that way.

Have to agree with the others, there is no such thing as a "correct" amount of sleep for a 4 month old to be having, some are good sleepers, some or not. My ds sounds similar to yours at that age, although he wasn't up so many times in the night.

I would also suggest co-sleeping, dd needs to be on top of the duvet anyway so there's no way you could throw it on top of her. I'm amazed that you're still able to function given the amount of sleep you must be getting and the fact your dh is away all week (and doesn't help at weekends). Can he at least take her out for walks at the weekend so you can get some sleep during the day? I assume he works in Europe as he's back every weekend, could you possibly go there for a bit? Also if dd doesn't need feeding every time she wakes in the night, she will settle more easily for daddy anyway because he doesn't smell of milk.

This is why I love mumsnet - I feel much more normal now! Thank you all. :)

compo - have just sent DH off to John Lewis to order a blackout blind (have shutters at the mo which keep out most but not all of light) as they don't do a standard one which is long enough!

mears - I might give the muslin idea a go and see how she takes to it. There are no pavements where I live (very much countryside), so I might need a few pairs of shoes to simulate the paths we take .

mp - lol at pondering the mysteries of the universe!

tribpot - I function because I'm supermum ! I only got 2 hours a night for the first 6 weeks, so 5-6 hours now feels like a luxury! DH does do some of the walks at the weekend, and if we go out for the day then he will have her on his front in her carrier to give me a break. I don't think going away with DH would really help, as he works late enough that DD would be getting ready for bed by the time he got in anyway.

Hi csws... thought this thread would have you involved somewhere! If it makes you feel better, although ds2 has slept right through from day one, its only if I bf him to sleep in our bed. And during the day, he sleeps by default because there's not alot else to do in the back of a double buggy trawling round after your older brother!He's never had a day nap in his cot.So if we are a home for a day - a rarity- its really hard to get him enough sleep.

csws - yes I'd say the shift from daytime sleep to nighttime sleep has only happened in the last month or so. I know what you mean about the day time sleep, it's not for want of trying I put her down but she won't do more than an hour at a time, but then she's rubbing her eyes and trying to dive headfirst on the sofa or whatever at 6pm so that's when I do the bath/bed routine. She would hardly even sleep in the cot at all during the day before, just in the pram so I would walk for hours jsut to get her to catch up with her sleep!! I think the curtain/teddy thing are just additional cues tbh, and the teddy is just a comforter. Don't be too she sleeps much better than before, but still with 2/3 wakings and more often than not she spends at least half the night in bed with us! at your dd that she still likes to be swaddled, dd loved this as a newborn but then started flailing around all over the place! Now she point blank refuses to sleep on her back, it's her side or tummy and I'm forever trying to turn her as I know she should be sleeping on her back.

I tell you another thing I've noticed, she has settled much more into her own pattern since weaning, she gets sleepy after a solid meal! It's all trial and error, isn't it?

mears - slipper idea might just be a stroke of genius! Started her off walking round garden and on drive this morning, but was a bit chilly in just my nightdress, so came inside and finished her off running over my upturned sandal. That was about 50 mins ago and she's still asleep!

bl0ndie - it is indeed! I wouldn't exactly say that DD likes to be swaddled - she often (though less now than previously) seems to be fighting against it, but it does do the trick.

Feeling very pleased this morning as she slept from 8-3:15, had a 20min feed then slept again til 6 when she did her usual happy as larry act for just over an hour before starting the eye rubbing. Hopefully in time she'll combine this first nap with the night sleep!

Hi CSWS

I found the baby whisperer brilliant, used it mainly at bedtime because I wanted to have some time with dh but during the day I would take ds for walks or for a drive to get him to sleep. DD has been completely different and with the aid of a dummy and sound of the hoover, will go off to sleep on her own, thank god. Can you imagine trying to do PU/PD with a 2 year old leaning into the cot yelling WAKE UP at her.

How's the CMP intolerance, are you having any success with cutting out dairy?

Yes - loads of success thanks - it really is like having a different baby! Even friends have asked if we've swapped her for her good twin!

Am trying to avoid soy too at the moment, although not panicking if the odd bit creeps in. Rice milk isn't too bad when it's just on Alpen. Going to miss ice cream though, although might use the soy version as a test to see if she is ok with it in a couple of weeks.

This is why I now feel ready to tackle other things like sleep and routines with her, as she can't use the tummy ache excuse!

Thank you so much for all of your help with this :).

are you off dairy? I had to do that 1st 4 months both times. it gets so much easier after a week or so and remember you can still have hot chocolate! (cocoa, milk, sugar.

provamel vanilla is nice.

i think some soy stuff like deserts is full of lots of suprising crap though, hydrogenated veg fat and so on, just to be aware.

Hi CSWS

Glad I could help. Just wish I had all this information when ds was a baby then maybe we wouldn't have all the problems we have had with dd.

Take care