4yo can't/won't "switch off"

[YoniBottsBumgina]

I'm really struggling with DS at the moment. From the moment I put him to bed the next few hours are just a constant stream of noise from his room, repeated trips to the toilet, requests for food and drink, things he urgently has to show me, questions about what I'm doing, etc etc. Anything to avoid sleep. If I sit with him even he is absolutely wired and just won't (can't?) relax. Just fidgeting, humming to himself, suddenly having a question, needing the toilet every 5 mins, needing to adjust the covers, suddenly deciding he needs to wear different pyjamas or needs another teddy.

I don't engage with him at all. No food after brushing teeth and only plain water. I tell him to tell/show me X in the morning because it's time to sleep now. When he says he can't sleep I tell him to lie down in his bed instead. But I can't force him and he just doesn't do it.

This is stressing me out so much. I seriously struggle to wake him in the mornings and we often end up late for nursery.

Continued because phone was going weird.

Electrical/computer type games are banned after 6pm. He does watch tv before bed but this seems to help him relax so I'm reluctant to stop that. I sometimes let him play quietly in his room if he really cant sleep but it just gets silly as he won't let go and sleep until really late. However, this is preferable to me getting more and more frustrated until I scream at him. TBH neither route ends up with hik getting to sleep any faster.

Does he have any wind down routine before bed? Bath? Bedtime story?

Also, it's very light till late these days. Does he have blackout blinds?

And also, he has always been like this. From the time he could crawl I had to strap him into his pram to get him to nap - I didn't have to push it, just make sure he was restrained and then he would quite happily, with no. Protesting at all relax and fall asleep whereas left in a cot he would just get up and try to crawl around. When he went into a bed at 2 I had to talk him through it - sit with him and basically remind him to lie still and not talk/hum/etc. But I'm still having to do this now except that it now doesn't work unless he's in exactly the right frame of mind and it is the most frustrating thing ever to sit there and watch him NOT relax. I can tell within seconds if he's letting himself relax or not because he holds his whole body stiff, alert, as though he's about to jump out of bed and defend his tribe or something!

Dd is like this. She's an owl rather than a larh

Bath some nights but not every night. Teeth, pjs, 3 stories, and then a story cd. Doesn't make a difference. (bath night probably worse because he likes to pretend to be a ghost under the towel)

Also no blackout blinds but it was happening when it was winter too.

I should probably mention that currently my job means that we get home at 7.15 on 2-3 days of the week. This is unavoidable and temporary, the whole situation will change in around 2-3 months but currently we are stuck with it. It's irritating because the person who does the Rota at work has changed and the old person used to let me finish early more often than not but it's all changed now. Because we're moving in 2 months I can't afford to quit either. But on these days it is even harder for him to wind down in time and means I don't have time for a long bedtime routine. Normally his bedtime is 7pm but on these nights we don't get startedintil 7.30 or sometimes closer to 8.

What time does he go to bed?

I would absolutely not engage with him once he has had a story. Could he listen to soft music (my 3 year old will only go to sleep with music playing). Make sure all necessary things are in his room (e.g. non-spill bottle of water) and he has done a wee before bed. Tell him that if he comes out of his room you will take something away that he really likes (my DS1 responds to any edible treat being taken away). Or start a star chart and give him a star every day which equals a treat on Saturday or something similar.

It may be that he is a night owl but regardless he has to be up for nursery and soon school.

I know you can't force him to lie down in his bed but you can stop him from leaving the room (through punishment/reward). You can make sure there is nothing electronic in his room to play with and if he chooses to play then let him.

Also, look at what he has for tea. No sugary drinks, no chocolate etc.

It could be that you need to set his bedtime a bit later as at least then he might go to sleep quicker. However, you would need to make sure that the run up to bathtime is quiet. My DCs have quiet time from 6pm, tv but no games or running around.

The key is consistency - choose a plan and absolutely stick to it. Do not change the rules half way. After a few weeks of playing by himself in his room with no attention he may start going to bed slightly earlier.

Just crossed posts! Is he not seeing you until 7pm? If so, he may actually just want to spend time with you.

I would be tempted, until your rota changes, to change his bedtime to 8pm. Spend the hour you have with him in very quiet and calm play, books and chatting about his day. Do a bath every night and make it clear that after the bath that is the end of noisy play. Agree on a set amount of bedtime stories and be very firm that it is bedtime.

On the days that I work I get to him at about 6.45-7 depending on how long it's taken to shut up shop. I definitely hear you about him needing to spend time with me on those nights but I'm utterly frazzled when I get in - I'll have just spent 9 hours working with one half hour break and then the best part of an hour walking to the childminder and then home. I try to do stuff with him but I'm barely capable of conversation. We have been watching you've been framed together which is nice and easy and we chat on the way home. i dont think I could do bath every night as it takes so long. Would just push everything back later. Maybe I need to start board games again, the ones he likes should be easy to play while braindead!

He is quite happy to play quietly in his room but left to it he's up until 9 or 10pm by which point he's hungry again and I don't want to give him food so late. (I've been letting him have plain bread and butter) And then of course he's difficult to get up in the mornings.

Will be easier when we move. DP will be around and hopefully my hours will be more sensible - but if not DP is able to be flexible with his. Just makes me impatient for the move!

Plus Ive just remembered/realised. I had been telling DS it was ok to play quietly in his room if he can't sleep but then lately he was using it as almost an excuse, oh, I'm too awake, even though he was shattered, he just preferred the idea of playing to sleeping. It's like he wanted/needed me to not give him permission, tonight there was lots of in and out and questoons etc but he did go to sleep at 8.30ish because I kept saying no, no more playing, time to sleep now rather than saying yes you can play. But I did get a bit cross and if he'd been more determined it would have got to me more. O don't know why bedtime in particular winds me up so much :(

It sounds as if he is overtired. I know you can't do much about it now, but really the time you get to him is when he should be going to bed. Dd is a pain with sleeping and always has been, but she had a very small window of when she would go to sleep, and at about that age it was between 650 to 7 10 ( see its imprinted on my mind!) if we missed that she would be awake until 9.00pm. It was a bloody nightmare.

If he slept while restrained in a pram, have you thought of a weighted blanket?

Interesting thread!

DD is 2.6 and is often quite 'wired' when its' time to go to bed. At the moment, we're in a bath/shower/hair-washing resistance phase so bubbles at bedtime are a no-no.

She gets her tea (high protein, low sugar) around 5.30pm, and eats well. We then have quiet play and story time. Into nightwear at 7pm, milk, teeth cleaned and usually to bed for 7.30.

However, she won't just settle. We have a little cuddle, I lay on the bed with her and then move her into her cot after 5 mins or so. Then sit beside her for another 5 mins, holding her hand.

All the while she is fidgeting about, chattering, running through the events of the day. I do let her talk but with gentle reminders about it being time to sleep, quiet time etc.

After 5 minutes or so, I tell her I'm leaving the room, and go. Usually she will settle down after being noisy/fidgeting about for another half hour. However, the last few nights she's been trying delaying tactics - telling me she needs a wee/has had a wee, is hot/cold, etc.

Most nights she'll sleep through and wake around 6.45/7am and is definitely not tired by then.

How long before you get to move, OP?

In the interim, is there any feasible way to start the wind-down BEFORE you pick him up from the CM? Do you walk with him back? I find if I can get DD to do a long walk, she does seem to settle more easily. And you need to see if you can get a bit more of a break in your day. Even if it's just 10 minutes in the afternoon to recharge a little bit.

Yes we walk back but DP reckons that it's not the same as doing a walk for fun. I have stuck him on my back for a piggyback a couple of times which helps a lot, it's not too far, I might carry on with this as a strategy.

Hoping to move in august but depends on DP finding us a house. Really hoping that happens before September as we have no school place for him here! (moving abroad).

I dont know what a weighted blanket is but suspect it wouldn't help because he likes to sleep on top of the covers abyway.

I think you're right though oranges and we're missing his "window". And then if he's already tired from the night before it's harder to locate again the next day.

If it's any help we did get into a pattern with really late nights a little while back. 9pm

Rather than go drastically back to the 'normal' time, I gradually worked the bedtime back by 10 mins every night. Took a while, obviously, but it was less stressful to DD that way.

Good luck with the house-hunting and school placement.