2 year old/bad sleeper/at the end of my tether/warning LONG!

[IAteTheCake]

DD 2, has always been a bad sleeper. After much solution finding, blackout blinds, temp control, diet changing, carnial ostoepath appointments (when she was tiny), sleep consultant (from 9 months) we finally had her sleeping from 7pm to 5am after many tears from her and me, and frustration from dh. She learnt to self sooth and was sleeping pretty well just in the nick of time to stop my marriage collapsing and me having a lack of sleep induced breakdown (ok, I exaggerate a little but it was BAD!)

Until the transition to toddler bed....when it seems we are back in lack of sleep HELL.

She has taken to her toddler bed well, goes to bed ok, likes her pillow and duvet and having her animals around her... but is waking from 1-5 times a night and comes to find me. If it is dh trying to take her back she screams the house down, if we have a gate up on her bedroom door it makes no difference she just screams the place down. I take her back quietly to bed, don't engage and she soon settles back to sleep. But doing this 1-5 times a night is taking it's toll. I am 26 weeks pregnant and work full time and just can't do it any more... I am soooo tired. I just want her to settle and happily sleep. The room is dark, she has a nightlight, a good bath/bed/milk/cuddle/story routine we stick to and she likes. I try not to stay with her too long and she has learnt to fall asleep on her own. It is the night waking which is the problem. I am getting about 2 hours sleep at a time, what with her waking, dh snoring and baby kicking. It is affecting my health as I now have constant over tiredness headaches. DH does what he can, but is often not home from work in time for bed/bath but does pull his weight at weekends and let's me nap then. That aside, dd is overtired too, so we need to get her into a better sleeping pattern. The sleep consultant suggested the gate on the bedroom door and warned about a few screaming nights but that things would improve and she would sleep. She was right there has been crying (from me and dd again), but dd hasn't learnt to go to bed and will shout all night. I don't think it is a solution.

Can anyone help please? I am really emotional about the whole thing now and we must get this sleeping sorted before the whole cycle begins again with a newborn who is due in August... I cannot remember the last time I had a full night's sleep or when I woke up refreshed in 2.5 years inculding the end of my pregnancy with dd! I know this is part of parenthood but please tell me it gets better! Can anyone recommend anything or share their stories. Tell me it will be ok! I can't believe I am still employed, can drive or do normal day to day tasks on the sleep I am getting.... I feel awful and will never ever shift these dark circles! I am worried we have more of this to come with dc2 when baby arrives and the thought fills me with dread. We all need some sleep.

I beg you.... please tell me your sleep solutions!

Oh my, sounds horribly familiar. DS was like that. I have no idea if this is any help or not, but this is what we did.

First off, try an easy solution and see if she goes for it, so promise an audio book if she stays in bed and is quiet. Put it on very low and she'll nod off listening. Bad habit, but hey adults go to sleep listening to the radio and if it works, what's not to like. If you put it on a loop it'll keep playing if she wakes again.

Second more drastic solution is to make yourself a bed up by hers - everybody told us not to do it, but we were so desperate to break the pattern. Logic is similar to pick up put down, but instead you do a deal - she's 2 so she should be old enough. So if she wakes up you're right there. If she stays lying down and quiet you stay. If she insists on getting up/ out of bed you walk away and say you'll only return if she lies down and closes her eyes.

Now clearly that sounds insane, but once they're compliant, when they wake you just mutter it's okay I'm here and you'll find she drops back off far more quickly - as do you. Then you start to find that she'll wake less and less as she feels safe and knows you're there. To be honest it did take 4 months with my son, but by the end of it I had a child who slept through most nights and we were both getting far more sleep from day one. DH and I used to take turns.

Once DS was sleeping pretty well I just went back to my own bed. If he woke I just said I'd nipped into see Daddy and pretended I was always coming back.

Feel free to think I'm mad!

Hi I'm so sorry you're having a tough time! I have a 3 year old who wakes in the night at least once and find it extremely frustrating! And I a SAHM and not pregnant!! My ds wants to get into our bed and will happily go to sleep very quickly but then we don't sleep well so we have to transfer him back! Only for him to wake again! We would also like a solution but don't think we are as desperate as you sound!
Just a few thoughts I had reading your post:

1. Why is she waking? Noise, light, hungry, thirsty, too cold? Or just habit?
2. Would she respond to a reward type system? eg. sticker if she goes back to bed quietly and a small treat after x number of stickers? Then gradually building up to staying in bed all night.
3. Would using a gro-bag stop her getting out of bed and into your room so easily? (Or like ds can she still move at a rapid speed in one??!!). Might also keep her warmer if that is a potential trigger as no risk of losing duvet etc?
4. In the short term I think you need to get a couple of decent nights sleep so you are refreshed and more able to tackle the problem. Could she stay with grandparents for a night? Or could you have a night away - I know it sounds desperate but once you're exhausted managing this sort of challenging behaviour seems even more difficult.
5. Also does she ever stay with relatives on her own and if so how does she sleep there?

Sorry if you've already covered these things!

Thanks both... nothing is mad or silly.. as you can see I am happy to try anything at this point but the key thing for us is consistency as she does like routine....

just to answer some of the q's. There should be no reason for the waking, she is fed and watered before bed ;-) the temp is set so she should be a constant comfy temp, we tried making bedtime earlier (she wasn't ready) or later (over tired) so about 7.15pm/7.30pm seems to work, I tried stickers - she doesn't get it quite yet, we stopped the gro bag as she could get herself out of it and was getting cold, we tried the gro clock and again she isn't quite old enough to grasp the concept. Neither of the grandparents are able to help as don't live nearby or couldn't cope with a small child in those circumstances due to ill health... so getting a break isn't easy. She hasn't slept anywhere else without us in the house other than nursery in the day which goes well, it is just the night time waking...

This must be shattering. But listen - she is only 2. She is probably scared of the new bed and new environment. I would try to create a situation where the new bed is associated with a feeling of security. Right now the new bed has unpleasant association as your DD wakes, goes to you for comfort, but you do not allow her to stay. Why not just let her into your bed? This does not mean that your DD will sleep in your bed for ages from now on. This may just help calm her down and create positive association with her new bed. She will know that if she wakes up and is scared, she can always go to you. So waking up in the night in the new bed will not be so scary and she will stay in it.

Alternatively, I would go with the suggestion of making yourself a bed by your DD's bed. At least you will be away from your DH snoring!

Can I put forward another suggestion....put her back in the cot.

I suspect what she might be trying to tell you is that she's not ready for a bed yet. Apparently my mum tried the same with me at a similar age and it was a disaster, i just wasn't ready. 2 can be a bit young (I have always left mine in the cot bed with sides on till nearer 3). If you need the cot for the baby, try getting a cheap second hand one for DD, or borrow one.

Failing that does she have a bed guard? Might be worth investing in one as that can help them feel more secure....DS2 still has his on at 3.5.

And so the sleep deprivation continues...nothing, nothing is working and I am now a teary mess.

dietcokeandwine - she started climbing out of cot hence move to cotbed, it was getting dangerous, she does have a bodyguard but can still get out of bed...infact she says she doesn't want it! She can also get our of grobags hence the move to duvet and pillow...which she likes snuggling down in....

But even trying to be consistent the last few nights nothing is working and I am making myself ill with sleep deprivation :-(

HELP!

Bodyguard - bedguard - stupid predictive text!

This sounds very familiar. Our 2.5 year old was doing this since about February and I am 40+2 weeks pregnant with DC2. However, we consistently put him back in his bed (we would take turns) and never let him come into our bed. It was really hard. He would appear in our room twice a night and then again at 5.30am in the morning.

However, what I then tried was bribing him. So I told him if he stayed in bed all night and didn't wake up until morning time, we would go for an icecream the next day (or some kind of other treat). Now it's if he stays in bed all night, he can watch Fireman Sam in the morning when he wakes. I make it really exciting. I say "you can jump out of bed and come and grab Mummy and you can say "wake up it's morning time"". Anyway, it seems to ahve worked because he has not come out of bed for the last two weeks. We have still had a few 5.30am appearances but we put him right back to bed and he usually goes back to sleep until around 6.45am. However, it did take a few months though. I just tried to be as consistent as possible. I didn't try any gates or anything like that because I didn't think that would solve the problem.

I genuinely think it is an age thing as well that they will grow out of. However, I feel your pain. It is very difficult. and I really struggle to fall back asleep so I was really tired because I work full time. Hang in there and perhaps give bribery a try?

Oh I also tried to gro clock and this didn't help. I also found a slightly later bedtime helped as well, but I am not sure. He goes to bed around 8pm.....

Ah OK if she was getting out of the cot then that's not an option - sorry! What a nightmare for you, I do feel for you, sleep deprivation is awful.

emmyloo2's suggestion of bribery sounds a good one...do you think that might work?

I’m in this exact position. IAteTheCake, what ended up happening?

So pleased to see someone recently post on this topic. I read this a few months ago and have just stumbled across it again in ANOTHER Google search about my toddlers horrendous sleeping. At my ends wits and don't know what to do. Dd is 20 months and although I know people will say it because she's co slept and never had the chance to self soothe, that doesn't help, and I never imagined co sleeping would end up meaning no sleeping!!!! I get that it was always going to be difficult to get her out the bed, but she still wakes very regularly and she is a massive fidget and can't sleep without cuddling up to me and touching my skin where ever she can -usually my neck. An its not just touching it she need's to do its fiddling if that makes sense. It's driving me insane. If I try to turn from her she absolutely screams the house down, it's heartbreaking. Dad can't do anything and never really has not rhrough lack of willingness but just because she has been so attached to me. Just don't know what to do I just want a nights sleep!!! Help. Please tell me someone else has it this bad! I feel like we have tried it all and now she has found a screaching sort of cry it's unbareable. I've been clinging onto the hope that when she gets to 2ish she will be able to talk and understand bribery but I'm now thinking it's not going to be that easy

@Ivycatseyes1 Its really hard, I totally hear you. we've been through it and worse.. think six months of 3-4 hours of screaming every night no matter what we did. DS has never been a good sleeper...it's always up and down. He's now 2 years and 1 month. My suggestion is to get a sleep consultant at home.. get some good recommendations locally. Where are you located?

What worked for us was setting boundaries and keeping that consistent. "you want mama in the room? Then you need to be lying down and be quiet".

It does sound that you need to get her to sleep in her own bed/cot, and gradually remove yourself from the equation by introducing a substitute like a blanket or a soft toy, that she can cuddle from now, while she's still with you. Mine also fidgets like crazy, and in the end can't get comfortable and gets more and more awake when I co-sleep him, so we decided never to do it again...

Thanks so much for your reply. Dd has never cried for that long but that's only because I've always given in to what she wants and now I know that was wrong. We did try controlled crying about 4 times but it never worked. It was gut wrenching and she could continue for 1.5 hours and when she had vomit in her mouth or launched herself around the cot smacking hard into it I would give up and and scoop her up. Personally for me I think it's too distressing when it get's to a certain point. She has always gone down at bedtime in her cot, usual good routine. Never a massive problem, one point we could walk out after her milk but that was only for a few months. At the moment we are lying by it holding her hand which is lasting too long and starting to drive me mad she needs that, because the bedtimes almost feel like we've gone are step back. She wakes when I come up to bed however silent I am because she senses it and wants to come in with me.
Out of desperation although not ideal about 2/3 weeks ago i put a toddler bed up in my room. She was excited and played in the day 'nunight' and tucking herself and teddies in. We had a but a week where I would transfer her to that and she'd sleep til 3/4 in the am (1 or 2 shh and hand on her if she stirred) then clamber in with me. For about a week now she's not been right though, not sure what, I think top molars finishing off coming through. So nights have been bad/back in with me obsessed with touching me. This weekend my partner and I have had huge rows which doesn't happen often but I'm worried that's also upset her. Also, I'm worried her unsettled nights could be that the novelty of toddler bed has worn off and actually she is just now confused with so many beds!! So I'm just feeling absolutely terrible about everything atm.
Partner wants a sleep consultant (Hampshire Berkshire btw) but I'm not so keen, because I don't think they can give me a solution or an idea that I can't come up with. The solutions and ideas aren't the problem, it's how she takes to them. Even if I'm in the room by the cot she gets so bad if I don't take her she can't calm herself down. She's just as bad with Dad.
Probably my naivety and it would not be any better but I wonder if a bed in her room instead of cot will make it easier as I can get closer instead of doing it through flipping bars! But I don't know.
How is your little one sleeping now then? Have you found it easier at 2. Am I wasting my time waiting til 2 to really try and implement things like bed and bribery????

Oh wow all these sound nearly identical to our situation. We never did controlled crying, we did Responsive settling at a sleep school in Melbourne. See chart attached. It took 8 weeks of doing this, until he started to improve a lot and began sleeping really well with little efforts to resettle if he wakes. But when it was really bad, before we went to sleep school, he would cry on and off for hours like I said, even though we have tried everything, boobs,cosleep, rocking, etc.

Right now his sleep is bad again. Doesn’t like the cot. We are about to move house so we thought let’s make it consistent, have his cot next to our bed, not in his own room anymore. We’ve done this for a couple of weeks and some nights are better than others. Before that, I was sleeping next to his cot every night in his room, and yes would have to hold his hand and remain there till he fell asleep. The good period after sleep school only lasted 4 months or so. This bad “regression” has been going on since November. It’s doing my head in. Yes fights with partner too, everyone is frustrated when it feels like all the hard work and progress has come undone.

Not sure what to tell you, maybe her sleep will be worse at 2, maybe better? Who knows? Everyone is different but I do hear sleep regression at 2 is common.

Keep me posted and I’d do the same! One day at a time mama!

Sorry forgot to attach!

Thanks so much for sharing that. I imagine it's going to be incredibly difficult. Dd is very very determined and stubborn. I can imagine I will be lifting her in and out a million times over a good 1.5/2 hours before she gives in. She won't be happy when I try to put her back in the cot. And I hate to imagine how many times in the night she will call me in. Did you have it like this?? However did you not give in?!!! We bf for 15 months and she's always slept in with me from first wake, because I've always done it all on my own and I just couldn't cope with the frequent wakings hourly. It was killing me. Really sorry to hear you are having a regression. We too had a good month in September where she actually stayed in her room and would resettle for my partner. It was amazing. We felt like we were getting to normality and other half and I getting our bed back. But it didn't last long. And I feel so bad for her too because I just want her to sleep soundly for her sakes. It's really starting to bother me because she has real sleep issues and I feel so responsible and guilty. All because I can't bare to distress her in the first place!!!!

Oh love, I hear you. we've been exactly in the same position. How do we not give in? We cut out night feeds and that really helped with his sleep, that was the first step. Husband did most of it at first, it was really tough. The only way it works is if you do it together. It takes two adults to battle a stubborn child. Make sure you and partner say and do exactly the same thing, exactly in the same order. Don't give up, you'll get there. You're absolutely right. When they sleep well, they're much happier, and if you feel the lack of sleep is starting to affect her growth and development, then you're probably right. Seek support--sleep consultants may only tell you things you already know, but the good ones will be there with you as you do the night settles/resettles. It helps to have a trained professional coach you and support you as you do it. Some offer live SMS support no matter what the hour. That's what made a difference for us. I still breastfeed but only morning and before bed, and right now we're trying to naturally wean, so we don't offer nor refuse, and he's often stopped asking in the evenings.. It's just their need for closeness, so I feel it's the best way forward for us both. That way he can get the emotional security and comfort through other means (cuddles, book together, etc) not just my boobs..

Can your little girl climb out of the cot by herself? Mine can now. It makes life far harder... toddler bed soon, I think. Then we have to go through it all over again. "Sleep time now, go back in your bed, or we leave you alone in the room! You want mama? you want papa? then lie down and stay down in the bed.." over and over and over and over. I bloody hope all this is worth it and he grows up to cure cancer or something! HA HA HA

Dd stopper bf'ing herself at 15 months. It was absolutely wonderful. It was driving me mad at the night as she couldn't sleep without getting on them and as she woke so frequently, it was really really annoying. I was starting to dread having the force her to stop and was starting to think what age I felt I wanted that to be. So it was the absolute god send when she just stopped one night.
I do wish she would attach to something though. I think it would help her staying in the cot and make me feel better kmowing she had something. Or if she was good with daddy that would help. But she is terrible.
She can't get out the cot but I've never left her in there long enough to try. I know what you mean about dreading the toddler bed and how much harder it will be. But some times a part of me thinks we've all got to get used to it at some point so why delay the inevitable. Partly why I out one up in our room too just to see how that went. But she bus only just turned 20 months so probably still too young.
I'm sure it will be worth it all eventually too. Luckily she is not too affected by the day as never seems too tired. But just lately the last few weeks I'm worrying because I feel like she is a lot older now, and the longer this goes on for the more chance of a sleep issue impacting her whole life. Although I am clinging on to the fact all her teeth are not through and hopefully that is playing a part in a lot of the bad night's!!! We also want to desperately have another baby but this is seriously delaying that as I need her sleep to improve before I can consider it :-( xx

Hey
I know there have been no replies to this post since 2019 but I am currently going through this with my 2.5year old daughter and really struggling. I have a baby too who needs me for feeds during the night so I'm just finding it incredibly hard to meet both their needs all the time. I wondered if any of you that had gone through it could update this post on how you are getting on now and any words of wisdom!?