8month old has never slept through.

[lorna3586]

my son has never slept through, he doesnt know how to get himself back to sleep without being breastfed or bottle.most nights he ends up in the bed with me as he wakes about 5 times a night. i really want to do the pick up put down method but dont really feel confident that its not really traumatising my son as he just screams for hours when i try the method and seems really destressed. has anyone got any tips i=on doing the pick up put down method? any sucess stories?

he woke up from his last nap about an hour ago so ill try keep him up now untill 8. did your dd stand up in her cot when you put her down? my ds stands everytime i put him down and when i pick him up to settle him he riggles so much he really fights with me. but im determined to do it so im going to stick with it.

my dd did not generally sleep through at 8 months, but at nearly 12m she sleeps through most nights (unless theething gets in the way)
it does get better

lorna i feel that if he got up at 4pm for a nap hes not ready for a good settling nights sleep at 8, thats why i'd ban the nap after 3pm and stretch keep his 1st nap, what time ? quite short, for a better one after noon, would that work?
then a bath to keep him awake til he really is bog eyed.
no my ds didnt stand up, he really was tired, but just in the habit for a feed ( breast feed like you) and i had to break it, he got more than enough in the day, plus he was a good napper for 1 1/2 to 2 hrs at 11/12 and big sis helped to keep him awake in the day.

i think its mean mummy time to get over this problem.
what do u think

ps i cna appreciate u love the naps in the day for a break yourself, but if you get them consistent he will sleep better hopefully at night and then oyu well get a decent sleep.

i try and keep him awake but he crawls around sobbing following me due to tiredness. hes asleep now he just fell asleep on a bottle my dp just gave him. shall i wake him up? about the pupd method shall i still wait 2 mins even if hes standing?

lorna yes wake him up, he's just dozing and using the bottle to doze off on , give him 2 mins yes with pupd, take him up for a bath now.

My first ds didn't sleep through 'til 15 months when we decided to let him cry it out. We were tougher with ds2 because we knew there were no adverse effects on ds1 so he slept through at 6 months, after letting him cry it out. imo they cry because they know you will give them attention - if you don't give them attention they will settle themselves and get to sleep much quicker - which surely is better for them. As long as you check on them to make sure they are OK when they first start crying - then leave the room and leave them to it - they (and you) will surely do much better. How can you be the best mother for your child with broken sleep like you describe? (Don't mean to sound aggressive - but this is what I asked myself before leaving them to cry it out). As long as your baby is over 6 months, when the experts say they shouldn't need a night feed, I think you need to be tough. If you don't crack it when they are very young, it seems (from some of the other experiences described on mumsnet) to get much tougher! Once we decided to let them cry, it only took a couple of nights to crack it. Good luck, whatever you do.

So far its going well hes woken twice so far. It took my partner 50 mins the first time and about 10 the second time. Im really exited at the thought of him sleeping through. It will be such a mile stone. Thanks for all the help its really helped reasure me that im doing the right thing. Ill let you know how it all went tomorrow.

hope it goes well, good luck

Lorna - just wanted to add that for us, it was fine to NOT do the 'cold turkey' cc thing or even the strict PUPD. I found that even though we cuddled her & sang & rocked her back to sleep it still worked - i.e. a kind, gradual withdrawl of attention.

Does you little one ever go back to sleep with that sort of comfort as opposed to feeding? Would your dp feel more up for trying that (I mean, if he's worried about cc being too harsh?). It did help that my dp shared this with me though.

On the work front, also wanted to add that I work FT & I can tell you, most days, I'd rather be in the office than looking after children all day. I agree with you, staying home is no picnic and at least as exhausting most of the time.

Good luck

I did the pupd method last night it went well, my dp put him to bed at 8:30 he was asleep by 9:30 he woke up a few times after but was really easy to settle back to sleep he then woke at 12 and I settled him back to sleep it took about 10 mins. He woke again at 2:15 and I finally got him back to sleep by 3:30 he slept till 5:15 when i fed him. I proberbly shouldnt have but he hadnt eaten for 11 hours so I thought he might be hungry plus my breasts were really full and sore. We got up at 9 feeling really tired! And so far today he's had one nap which was so quick and easy getting him to sleep. So I think its working. Ive got one last question about the method...somtimes he falls asleep on my shoulder does this still count or does he have to fall asleep in his cot everytime for it to work?

I was ok about dd falling asleep on me (or dp)and she still got to the stage where she can & does go back to sleep herself.

Usually you hear people saying they need to learn how to settle themselves but my own opinion is that it's not doing any harm to let them fall asleep on you at the stage you are at - i.e. just getting him used to sleeping longer. Just my opinion though.

Butting in here.... with us, the key thing was night-weaning. Once DS has learned that he wasn't going to be fed between 9pm and 5am the rest kind of fell into place. He was 10 months when we night-weaned him - DP did the cuddling. It wasn't pupd but proper cuddling - DS generally fell asleep on DP. After 3 nights, I took over and once it reached the stage where DS twigged that he could have cuddles in the night, I just shushed and patted him in the cot (after a quick pick up to see if he needed a change ). He has slept through for the last week, and this was a baby who couldn't get to sleep without either feeding or rocking. Hang on in there - you're doing great. This method takes a bit longer than CC or CIO, but it works in the end. You just have to be consistent about not feeding.

I would go for certain versions of cc over pupd. Pupd expires in terms of usefulness for many families from the age of about 12 months and I also believe that some versions of cc are less traumatic than the resettling of pupd.

I feel that pupd is excellent in some respects but gives a false sense of security that the parent is going to stay holding the baby.

I believe one only needs to reassure the baby/child that its parent will always be there and respond to its cries but not that the parent will be at the child's side through the night.

Some cc methods teach self settling alongside giving a deep sense of security.

Be careful of the wide range of techniques described as cc - many are quite cruel imo.

lorna3586 - Try the baby whisperer website. It should have the answers to all you pupd and pat shh questions. I agree with everyone else, it will be alot less distressing for you ds if your dp does it.

Sorry can't do links

www.babywhisperer.com/smf/

I have to disagree with nannyme, sorry - PUPD and pat sh is intended to help them learn to self soothe and reassure them and not give them "false sense of security that the parent is going to stay holding the baby". It is also meant to be adapted with their age and i think in this case it is a breaking "the feeding to sleep" habit. Saying all this each child and parent is different and must find what is best for them. The gentlier cc methods really distressed ds and broke my heart.

Ill take a look at that website im sure it will help, I saw the baby whisperer programs on discovery home and health shes brilliant. Didnt know there was a website though. Im going to stick with pupd because at the moment it seems to be working and i dont know much about cc. But if pupd fails then i will look into cc. Im sure they both work and are proberbly very simular in how they work. I know what you mean about pupd though sometimes when i put him down he sounds so upset that ive put him down it kind of is like false hope that hes going to get a feed from me but i just think its a case of choosing the right time to put him down not to leave it to long before i do it then he seems to be ok. Also i find stroking his hair and just having my hand rested on his belly or back seems to work well with getting him to fall asleep in his cot.

Ill take a look at that website im sure it will help, I saw the baby whisperer programs on discovery home and health shes brilliant. Didnt know there was a website though. Im going to stick with pupd because at the moment it seems to be working and i dont know much about cc. But if pupd fails then i will look into cc. Im sure they both work and are proberbly very simular in how they work. I know what you mean about pupd though sometimes when i put him down he sounds so upset that ive put him down it kind of is like false hope that hes going to get a feed from me but i just think its a case of choosing the right time to put him down not to leave it to long before i do it then he seems to be ok. Also i find stroking his hair and just having my hand rested on his belly or back seems to work well with getting him to fall asleep in his cot.

Ill take a look at that website im sure it will help, I saw the baby whisperer programs on discovery home and health shes brilliant. Didnt know there was a website though. Im going to stick with pupd because at the moment it seems to be working and i dont know much about cc. But if pupd fails then i will look into cc. Im sure they both work and are proberbly very simular in how they work. I know what you mean about pupd though sometimes when i put him down he sounds so upset that ive put him down it kind of is like false hope that hes going to get a feed from me but i just think its a case of choosing the right time to put him down not to leave it to long before i do it then he seems to be ok. Also i find stroking his hair and just having my hand rested on his belly or back seems to work well with getting him to fall asleep in his cot.

I went to a sleep clinic when my DS was about 8 months as he was still waking 3-4 times a night for a bottle. The first thing they said to me was 'what do you think he wakes up for?' and that's seems to be the key to it even now he's 2.5. He's waking for his dummy now. If they're sent to sleep with it (dummy, boob or bottle) they'll expect it when they wake up.

They said a baby doesn't need milk at night, b/f or bottle past 8 or 9 months. They're weaned by then & have plenty of milk otherwise. So it's just comfort and/or attention. They advised cutting amount in the bottle down by 1oz every couple of nights. They also looked at the naps & suggested no nap after 3.30pm just as others have done here. Only after they'd sorted out the milk & the naps and suggested a more routine approach to meals & drinks during the day did they get into cc or pupd. I was nervous about a sleep clinic because I'd been told they'd tell me to leave him for 20 mins to cry & I don't believe in that. But they never suggested more than 5 mins, and it was essentially the shhhh & patting method. Worked for me. But you do have to be consistent about it, start on a weekend so husband/partner has no excuse not to help and lack of sleep not quite so problematic. Other thing that sleep clinic said was children need their sleep at that age in order to develop, so you're doing the best thing for them by sorting the night wakenings. I felt much better after that! If they have a sleep clinic nearby, can thoroughly recommend (it was free).

I understand PUPD but many of my clients find that, intolerably, they are cot-side for hours doing this - even as the technique is adapted to shhing as the baby matures.

I like PUPD and the progressive methods of babywhisperer style sleep training for many reasons but don't use the techniques myself as I feel that it gets outgrown easily.

I am very wary of debating cc as I have yet to find a common description of how it is done and there are many presumptions made about what good cc is.

I could be wrong, as any 'expert' could be, but I find nothing in my method that would be distressing for a baby. That said, it can be tough on parents - myself included.

accessorizequeen - Do you need to go and give ds his dummy? Have you tried put a few dummies in his bed so he can always find one on his own?

Nannyme - I did find that I sent hours at ds side when he was 4-6mnth because despite what the doctors said he had reflux and digestive issues which made me feel very guilt for getting fed up and try methods of cc. Once we were over those issues the baby whisperer mehtods work with him. But as we agree they're all different, dd likes to be left alone to fuss or cry (if she is over tired) and hates any PUPD or patting. I think cc methods would work better with her. Thank god because with two now, I won't be able to dedicate the time to do PUPD or patting.

by dedicate the time, i mean at her cot side, especially as I would have ds leaning into her cot.

I completely understand CADS!

Your reply made me frown in exasperation though - why on earth is it so difficult for so many health practitioners to accept or diagnose reflux problems and/or similar issues?!