Broken nights sleep/sitting up in cot

[JudeB]

Ever since my dd slept through the night (at 12wks), she has gone through phases of waking in the night but we have always managed to resolve them. She is now 10mths and this recent phase has lasted a few months: maybe 3/4 nights a week she is waking up once during the night but then doesn't seem to want to go back to sleep. She doesn't get upset - just sets up a bored whine more than a cry but as soon as we go in to tell her to go back to sleep she does!
We'd like her to learn to go back to sleep on her own & have tried leaving her (sometimes up to an hour which occasionally has worked) but she has now started sitting up in her cot but can't get back down again so now we're never sure if we need to go in to lie her back down.
I really feel we need to sort this out before she learns to stand as I can see it'll only get worse then.
Has anyone else had this problem? Any suggestions to resolve this greatfullly received!
Thanks.

Dear JudeB
Sounds a little bit familiar. My ds goes through periods of time when he wakes up at night and needs "help" to resettle. It usually follows a period of illness, when he's been sleeping like a log, for a few nights (longest was 2.5weeks). I usually listen in for 5-10mins to see if he will settle himself, if not I go in, lay him back down in his cot, repeat "night, night" and "time for sleepies" and leave. Occassionally he cries for a few minutes but then all is quiet until morning. I had to get dh to do it during the 2.5week episode as I think he got used to mummy coming in and cuddling him for a while, and it became habit. DH took the firmer line of no picking up, and just relaying down and after 3nights all was quiet. DS is nearly 15months by the way, but its been a pattern since we moved house at 10months and again last week, so the disruption of that may have been an influence too. I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that in London, our son slept on the top floor of three, yet for the past 5 months our beds have been either side of a thin wall. DH snores v loudly, perhaps it disturbed ds having some ogre-ish sounding monster nearby! We're now on 3floors again, ds at the top so no daddy snoring! Well apart from in my ear! Delightful!

I wonder if anyone has any suggestions for my problem. As many of you will know (from previous moans) our ds has never been the best of sleepers. We sleep trained him at 15 months and finally managed to get him to sleep through. However, in the last two months (he's nearly 2.5 now) I've had less than 10 uninterrupted night's sleep. He seems to be very restless at night and rouses easily from light sleep into tearful wakefulness. We also have the problem now of "monsters" and because he is so restless he frequently throws all his covers off and I'm sure then wakes up cold.
Although it usually only takes a minute or two to settle him again, I can imagine I am going to get increasingly resentful of these interruptions when baby two arrives (6 weeks time) and sleep is a scarcity. I have tried leaving him on a number of different occasions but he will cry, moan and grumble for up to an hour & a half, which is a long time for him and me to be awake. Unfortunately, can't get dh to deal with problem on a regular basis as he works away from home Mon-Fri.
Any bright ideas?

I can really sympathise Bugsy as we had similar with ds. Unfortunately I don't have any miracle cures, but we did try a star chart as an incentive - we bought (together) lots of interesting different stickers and drew up a big chart, and he got a sticker every morning he hadn't done any "nonsense" in the night. (Also stickers for eating well, good behaviour etc) - we also linked "rewards" (like playing on the computer and trips to the transport museum) to the same kinds of things. I found it quite hard to be consistent about actually because I felt mean denying him a star/treat if he'd woken from a bad dream but then settled quickly when I went to him (as you say yours does) - but he was incredibly proud of himself on the days he got stickers, and I'm sure it helped to encourage the right sort of behaviour. We don't do it any more, but we've still got some of the old charts and he still sometimes points to a sticker and asks what it was for (for which I make up elaborate stories of outstanding behaviour etc hoping to reinforce the message!!).

Over time it did improve (he's a good sleeper now) but I can't honestly say how much was due to anything we did and how much he just outgrew the phase. But it was quite fun doing the stickers anyway (probably makes me sound like some kind of horrid dragon mother!!) and it certainly didn't do any harm.

Wishing you lots of luck!

Bugsy, poor you... no advice I am afraid but buckets of sympathy...

Hi Bugsy, do you think he might take to a toddler sleeping bag? We find that whatever else our son gets up to at night (we've got the monsters in at present too) he can't climb out of his cot and he doesn't wake just because he's cold, thanks to his bag.
Other than that, no advice, but a lot of sympathy.

I agree with Marina about the sleeping bag.
Does he have any cuddly toys in his bed (presumably a cot/cot bed with bars?)
A few ideas...

• COuld he be scared ? Having nightmares ? Maybe his dad not being there is an issue for him ? Have you tried talking to him (not that he would give you a full blown explanantion in return) I agree that it would be nice to tackle this before baby arrives. My son is younger than yours and can understand quite a few things. Have you tried telling him before he goes to bed that he shouldn't worry during the night ? Maybe when you go see him, tell him : it's the middle of the night, come on, go back to sleep. After 3 or 4 days I would go for CC.... just because if it works you will be grateful afterwards. Good luck. You do have all my sympathies.

Waaaa! Bugsy, this sounds a little bit familiar for me too at the moment. I'm all for the nightmare theory. Dd seems to have a really hyperactive imagination (of course I prefer the words 'great intellect'!) and this is coming through at bedtime now, which, logically, with lots of mental stimulation through the day would be about right. Let's face it, our minds whir round after a hectic schedule so why shouldn't theirs?

I could never say dd was a 'terrible' sleeper and she's still happy to go to into bedtime routine until I have to leave the room and she asks lots of odd questions. One, which I've asked about on another thread before, is 'where's max gone?' (don't know any max's) another more popular at the mo is, 'the moon's gone to bed now hasn't he?' with a frightened look. With reassurance she's fine, but I feel awful leaving her in the dark. I'm pretty sure that the times she wakes up are mainly related to her dreams, she has called out the most odd things in the night and has been spending a good 2 nights a week back in with me for a while now.

She was definitely worse when she kicked off the covers though, so as opposed to the sleeping bag you could try my trick of buying a big fleecy zip up cosy suit thing (technical term there!) but you know what I mean (I hope!) over dd's pyjamas and she's fine til morning with the scraping of covers left over her by then!

Good luck Bugsy, can't believe you've only got 6 weeks left til your arrival!

We get this from time to time. I send ds to bed in a vest under his pyjamas in an effort to ensure he keeps warm. I also have two or three different blankets in his room, so when he wriggles about and I go and check on him I can just grab a spare one and throw it over him. He never stays under his duvet. We've got a glow plug and a musical winnine the pooh which helps with the night time resettling. I also remember monsters, tigers, dinosaurs etc 'appearing' at around 2.5 too. I'd shoo them away, tell ds they had gone, cover him up, put winnie on and leave again.

I don't spend very long in his room at all and avoid, where possible, sitting on his bed, or letting him climb on my lap. Its more of a case of a quick hug, blow his nose and leave again.

If the cold is bothering you, could you buy a small electric panel heater you could plug in and keep on low in his room to take the chill off?

I do sympathise, broken nights, especially when you are used to a full nights sleep is awful. I was up three times last night - once for a dream about a laughing dinosaur, once for a wee (ds, not me!) and once for general fed up-ness. Must admit, the last time I was a bit harsh and told him that mummy was very tired and feeling cross so he was to go to sleep before he made me very cross!

Bugsy - wow! I could have written your post exactly - we are having exactly the same problem, although ds is only 2 yrs 3 months. He wakes up saying he's seen dinosaurs, monsters etc, or that there are beetles in his bed (we get a lot of little woodlice in our hallway and ds's favourite activity is going around with our handheld vacuum cleaner ("little Noo Noo" ) sucking them up.)
Had the first uninterrupted night's sleep last night for over 3 weeks. No particular success secrets, but we've done the same as phb - sticker chart (it's stars & planets this week) and checking for any monsters etc together before going to bed. The sticker thing is definitely sinking in for him as when he got up this morning I was greeted with "I need a sticker, Mummy"...
Good luck - like you, I'm dreading it continuing into when No. 2 arrives (still 19 weeks to go for me though). I'm sure it will stop as quickly as it started, but I know that's no consolation when you're up at 3 am. Irritatingly, although ds didn't wake up last night I still did, a) wonering why he hadn't (!) and b) needing to go to the loo 'cos the baby was doing aerobics inside.

Wow, you're all such a kind and caring bunch! Sticker charts, looking under the bed for monsters etc. You make me feel really hard hearted.

My 2.5 year old son is going through the same thing as you, bugsy and phb, marina, lizzer, motherofone... (phew! have I forgotten anyone?). We havn't had the monsters to visit yet, but we have had lots of interrupted nights in the last few weeks. Our son can climb not just out, but also into his cot bed, with casual ease. Two or three times a night he was wandeering into the hall and either announcing that he was wet (he hates a wet nappy - fair enough), or that he's 'lost it'. He wouldn't say what he's lost, but once he had your attention, he'd look very crestfallen and would start wandering around vaguely. Not what you want at 3.00 am. Dh and I came very close to 'losing it' too!

I think the overriding reason for his wakefulness is that he's growing out of his day naps. Is it just coincidence that so many of us have found that age 2 and a bit, night sleep becomes fitful?
IMO looking at my son, the main cause is physical, not mental. The 'lost it' anxiety is just a symptom of this. I hate to say good bye to the two-hour day nap, and welcome breather for me, but it's got to go. He is now having 40 mins at the most and sometimes nothing at all. Although he sleeps well at his childminders, I have asked her to do the same thing.

We are using other tactics, some nicey-nicey, and some not. I'm saying 'we' but actually it's my husband - the light sleeper - who has suggested these things, not me.

He said 'look at his scruffy cot blankets, machine-washed over two years, so they are really thin and manky. He must be freezing. We've got to make his bed an attractive place to be'. So we've given him a pillow, new softer sheets and an expensive fleecy cot bed blanket from mothercare - £24.99, can you believe it! I've tucked it in to form a little nest. My son calls it his quilt and now refers to himself as 'Queenie' - he's got an ABC book and Q is 'Queenie has a Quilt'. He's into royalty in a big way and likes having a red bath towel draped round his shoulders so he can swank around etc saying -'I'm ROYAL'. He's got the genders a little muddled up, but so what? Anyway, the bed enticement tactic is working.

But I'm afraid we are not just being all nice about this. Again this is my huband's suggestion, so address any cries of derision to him, not me (I protested much when he suggested this): After his bedtime routine, we are allowing him one plea of sleeplessness - I might change his nappy, give him an extra drink etc - then we tell him we are locking his bedroom door, which we do. Grumbling, very low level cries follow for about 10 minutes, with some scampering around in the darkness of his bedroom, then he apparently gets fed up and hauls himself back into his bed and nods off. As soon as we have silence for five minutes, we check to see if he is asleep and we unlock the door again. The same thing happens if he's up in the night - he's allowed one or two pleas of nappy changes or a drink, often ends up in our bed, but ultimately he gets locked in his room for the 10 minutes or so it takes him to go back to sleep. I was staggederd by how little he was upset by the locking in.

That, and the fleecy quilt seem to be doing the trick. Though I think the lack of a day nap is the underlying reason for the gradual improvement.

Many sympathies, Bugsy. Hope you get this sorted out before your new one arrives.

Bugsy, Can only offer sympathy - my oldest (now coming up to 2.5) has always been a poor sleeper and was 15 months before we managed to get him out of our bed and into his own room. He has been in a bed since his second birthday and regularly trots along to our bed or screams in his own room. I'm not sure which is worse. When the night migration gets too bad I resort to a gate over his door way which stops that after a few days - with a lot of screaming - until something else trivial upsets the pattern. I might try the stickers idea on him - this might appeal, but I think part of his waking problem is hunger and he eats so badly - partly I think due to tiredness.
The baby (now 9 months) sleeps so much better than his brother - he's in his own room, but is still up every 2-3 hours most nights, so is a poor sleeper by most peoples standards! If he goes longer than this the toddler seems to know and have a particularly bad night himself.
As I spend the nights roaming the corridor from one childs room to another I plot my revenge - I shall wake them at 6 every morning once they hit their teens

Lizp, LOL at your last sentence. I have had the same thought myself.

Just a quick update: my toddler has had two good nights and is going down much easier .

Was it the new fleecy quilt, the sudden lack of a long day nap, or the threat of the locked door? dunno, but my money's on the nap.

Tigermoth, glad to hear he is sleeping better. I went home after reading your last post and took a hard look at ds' cot interior. We were expecting him to go to sleep on a mound of soft but lumpy toys (all there at his request) so we had a cull and reduced the number of assorted (and unused)blankets. A much better result, what an inspired tip.

Marina, glad to be of service. I think our son is beginning to appreciate the effort we put in to making his surroudings cosy and nice. After all, he is royal, so he tells us!

Wow, thank you all for your helpful suggestions and support. I know it is of no comfort to you all, when you are getting interrupted night's sleep too, but I feel slightly better knowing that I am not the only one.
Sleeping bags are completely out unfortunately. I spent good money on one and he had a complete paddy each time we tried it. When he was younger he wore a fleecy suit but now he spends a considerable amount of time under the covers he gets too hot with one of these on and I had to stop putting him in them.
To be honest, having read some of your messages I think I am probably making a bit of a fuss. He settles back to sleep very quickly and it is just annoying from my perspective having to heave my great bump out of my cosy bed to go & tend to him. Very selfish really.
The last four nights have been better as I have made a huge effort to wear him out physically - lots of running & walking. This means I'm usually crawling into bed at the same time as him - but at least there are less interruptions!!
Thank you all again.

My ds is 10 1/2 months old and has just learnt to crawl. He has also been sleeping on his front for a while...we put him down on his back but he will roll over and sleep on his front after a while but the problem is he can't roll back!

Since he learnt to crawl and sit up from laying down he has taken to sitting up in the cot and then screaming the house down as he can't lay down again. This has only happened early evening so far..until last night when it was 2.30am!!

I just went in and lay him down again and he went back to sleep but I can imagine this will be a pattern...sitting up rather than trying to roll over. Friends say that there babies learnt to lay back down again but that they did have to leave them too it to do so...any experience/comments welcome!

Posted the other day but no responses :-( .Any ideas?

We had a similar problem with dd especially during day time naps. She would sit up or later stand up and yell. I used to go in and firmly lay her back down, telling her it was time to sleep. She would protest but I would leave her for a few minutes before returning if she was up again or leaving her for longer if not. This worked more times than not.

So long as they are not really distressed the crying is more out of indignance and will subside fairly rapidly.

hth

LizS

ds was just like this when he started to crawl. He'd sit up, cry, I'd go in and lie him down, and he'd be asleep instantly. this happened several times a night, but fortunately the phase passed very quickly - within a couple of weeks. I think it stopped due to a combination of him learning how to lie back down, and me deciding to wait and see if he could before I rushed in to do it for him.
Even now he usually sits up in the cot before keeling over forwards and falling asleep - in the 'mecca position' as we call it!!