7 month old wakes up every 2 hours at night!

[Amee]

My 7 month old daughter has never been one for sleeping at night, but recently she has been waking up every two hours (she used to wake up 3 times a night). I have put this down to two things: 1) She has not taken to solids and is still on breastmilk (this is a problem which I have put to the "food" discussion forum) and 2) she is going through the teething stage. The only way I can settle her back down to sleep again is by feeding her, which I now goes against every text book around, but I have tried the "controlled crying" method but my daughter just cries until she vomits and that's even more work for me, especially at 3 am! Will this constant feeding every 2 hours really give her a bad habit in months to come? I don't know what else to do.

Pupuce

dd is very happy so long as I'm not trying to feed her solids (although has taken a couple of spoonfuls last night and this am)and will chew on bottle teat / cup but not drink from it - which makes me think teeth.

She settled last night for first sleep with dh, but still had many frequent wakings - lost count and retreated to spare room at 6am. Has settled v. easily for morning sleep (by dh)just now so maybe its a bad spell she's coming out of??!

Have read some of CLB (ie not cover to cover) inc. getting on bottle stories. I had wanted to continue breastfeeding after return to work ( 3 full 12 hr days/week) if possible but maybe I sould let her go completely onto formula and then tackle sleep, but loathe to do anything too drastic until she's back on solids again a bit at least so we can be sure of getting something into her. I had thought that by making solids v. milky she would manage at nursery even if she refused milk from a cup or bottle. Not so right now.

Only stress I can think of was one day in a creche on Monday when I had a meeting in London. Could that really be a trigger for all this? She seemed quite happy there. Iwas able to feed her at lunch time which helped.

Yes it is all a bit waring but I'm coping fine because to some extent my days are as busy as I make them right now.

Tell me where you think I should start?
I know I can't deal with everything at once.

Scout - I'll come back to you later with some suggestions - I am in a hurry now and I need to read your posts more slowly.
Having said that I would recommend that you do read CLBB because you might pint point yourself, what is going on. I am not suggesting routines here but the pages on feeding and sleeping + case studies.

Scout... I don't know where to start... - from the length of this reply you'll understand why I couldn't do it earlier !
I'll write my thoughts - please don't take any of them the wrong way, I am only trying to help (which I hope I will )
BTW my own DD is 7 months old. I have a DS who is 2 yo. I have read CLBB cover to cover several times, I think the book is very useful and I have used it with my kids, you will notice that some of my advice comes from knowing it so well.

Sleep :
You don't say if she has been a good sleeper in the past (you say she has become worst)- I am presuming she has been OK but not great ??
What do you mean by settle ? From what I read she seems to be unable to settle on her own... Singing to her is fine but besides the hairdryer, do you rock ker ? does she have a dummy ? - those 2 things are (or can be) sleep associations. It is "better" if you can void those and let her settle on her own.
I am not a great fan of Dr Christopher Green but I just read his book this week and he says that control crying (CC) can be done at 6 months. If you go down that route, please do it properly for EVERYONE involved ! You can find out how to do it from his book (don't need to buy the book it's on page 153 of his book called Babies). He also makes an interesting point. It is much easier to improve babies' sleep when they have been decent sleepers before, it is much harder to teach toddlers to sleep properly if they have never done so (according to him, some toddlers never sleep properly) - so I think you would do her a service by guiding her through a "sleep programme". I think she would benefit from sleeping well (that includes feeding well).
I have the impression that your baby knows you and your husband too well. She gets what she wants. I am all for listening to your baby and letting your baby give you cues but it seems that she is a bit confused ! At the risk of offending some mums, you need to toughen up a bit! It may only be needed temporarely.
Lucky me, I have never had to use cc but I do have friends who have and were greatful for the results because it has improved things greatly. I have read one or 2 mums here say that it didn't work with their child.
Also, don't assume that CC takes weeks to achieve (in difficult cases I hear that it does) but in the ones I am familiar with, the baby was sleeping much better after 1 to 3 nights !
I think your daughter needs a longer lunchtime nap - 2 hours not 45 minutes. It is VERY common for babies to wake after 45 minutes, what you can do is go in and re-settle her with a cuddle and leave the room. She should go back to sleep - she may not the first time you do it but she will the next day. I remember vividly a mum several of us supported last year because her baby would not settle at lunchtime... she was posting while the baby was crying and she managed to sort it out in 2 days (she was keen to do it).

I won't say that she shouldn't be eating during the night at her age but I suspect that if she does it is because this is how she wants to settle and because she may not be getting enough during the day. Hence, in that respect I find GF very useful. Has she ever slept from 11 PM to 7 AM with no wakings ? If she has then it probably isn't hunger. 2 feeds do seem quite a lot during the night IME...

A personal observation from both your posts : you say you are very busy. I think you need to give you and her a break for 3 or 4 days to help her sort out her sleep.... meaning not so many outings so that she can have her naps and she doesn't feel that you are in a rush - babies are very sensitive to this.

Food : first of all you can go back to work and continue to bf, I do. I express milk after her morning feed (I empty as much as I can), when I get back home I feed her and again empty the rest. All of that is given the next day at nursery. If there isn't enough I give her a bottle that's actually happened twice only. It is better if you can express milk at lunchtime (it does help in keeping your production going efficiently) but (for me) that's not always possible.
I don't think switching from breast to bottle will sort out her sleep if you think she is getting enough breast, the problem isn't there.

DD had accepted the bottle wen she was very young and refused 3 days before she was due to start nursery at 5 months. DD gave her a bottle of breastmilk 1 morning (when she was very hungry - she refused it for 3 minutes but then she accepted it, he gave her a bottle another 2 times during that day - NOT ME - and we have never had a problem since) - I hope this may work for you.

As for solids, I would not worry too much :

1. she won't starve herself - she really won't
2. she is not even 6 mo - solids are not yet a big part of her diet and weight gain
3. she may or may not be teething (DD is chewing on the beaker as well but not teething) - she might be hungrier tomorrow
4. vary the foods, some swear by baby rice, both my kids hated it. DD is a small eater and will only eat 3 to 5 baby spoons (she has improved to about 8 in the past few days). She will eat more than those quantities with sweet potato and banana.... everything else is not really her cup of tea. She will eat carrots, apples, pear, courgette, quinoa but all in smaller quantities. DS ate like a pig ! So I have 2 very different children. Do not compare your baby's appetite to anyone else's it's only going to worry you.

Nursery... DD sleeps really well at home and very badly at nursery (3 days a week). It use to bother me but it has not affected her mood or sleep at home. According to staff, girls usually dont sleep as well as boys because they are too interested in what is happening around them.

To summarise, tackle her sleep first. I would suggest that you read Gina Ford chapter on sleeping as it might tell you "where you have gone wrong" (if you know what I mean). Try to focus on her in the next few days in order to give her a good start at nursery. She will find the transition easier if she is well rested.

Last thing - don't be surprise if I am one of few people who will post to you on this topic...as I have discovered a lot of mums who use GF wait to see what I have written and if they agree they stay quiet , if they have more ideas, they participate.... it doesn't mean that I am the only who has an opinion or who cares about your problem.
99% of Mumsnet knows I'll participate/advise in the sleep threads - it's a topic close to my heart !!!

I do hope some of my advice is useful to you. I would love to hear how you get on and as I am on Mumsnet everyday (it's addictive) I will look for your posts if you want more advice.

All the best
Pupuce

Listen to the other advice but don't give up on teeth discomfort. DS was in discomfort with his teeth long before they ever arrived, it takes months rather than weeks.

I agree with you Malmomum but a lot of new mums assume when anything goes wrong at 6 months that it's down to teething. I did the same but it isn't always the case. DS suffered, DD isn't suffering at all. There are loads of children who do not suffer from teething and the ones who do have a variety of symptoms.
It may be teething but it's worth exploring other routes as you suggested.

Scout- just to add to this advice, I think a lot of babies become a bit unsettled at about this age when they become able for the first time to "fight" tiredness in favour of spending time with the people they love most! Not much comfort when you're desperate for a break and some sleep, I know, but lots of us have been there and it does pass- eventually. Also, IME, the transistion you're making in preparing to return to work is difficult in itself and can make things at home feel a bit overwhelming in the rush to get back into the "organised" mode needed for work.
If you do try some sort of sleep training it might be worth trying to cut out one night waking at a time over a longer period rather than tackling all the wakings together.
Take it easy on yourself when you can- it's so easy to get wound up at certain stages with young children but they really do pass as you and they adjust to the inevitable changes that a growing baby brings. (The bad news, which I'm sure you know already? It's a never ending process- no sooner than you've cracked this and she'll be torturing you with something new... ad infinitem into teenagerhood and beyond!)

Thank you thankyou.

Feel a bit like a woman on the verge of a nervous break down. Been in tears twice this week which is sign of this. Have managed to feel quite sanguine about all this up to now. Scummy Mummy you're so right about return to work thing and urge to get organised making things seem overwhelming at home. Probably doesn't help as Pupuce rightly pointed out that I have been getting increasingly busy. We have had friends / relatives staying over for night or two at least once a week for last six weeks and I just got a cleaner who then sacked me because house needed too much cleaning I think!Despite having offered extra hours......

am going to re read CLBB - tried this routine (just from newspaper cutting posted to me by friend) but found no effect at 9- 11 weeks, but am vv. desperate, so will re read fully and reconsider.Also considering deferring return to work ( dh suggestion - but think this may not be feasible without upsetting the work appple cart +++), cancelling amyone coming over next few weeks or enlisting them as helpers only rather than guests. Sounds like we run a B&B - of course we don't but just feels that way - old habits die hard and wwe need to find a few new ones to survive this parenthood thing..

Will keep you posted with progress.Good to have some support out there, though I hope I haven't done "everything wrong" - don't think so most of time - DD is charming smiley babe,well grown etc,its just me who is suffering and I'd like to minimise her disruption re feeding when I go back to work.

Scout- you absolutely, definitely have NOT done everything wrong. Please don't lose confidence in yourself. It sounds to me like you've been having a great time utilizing the portability and hippy habits of a young baby, which is great work if you can get it! As long as you're happy dancing to the baby's tune, (eg: you don't need to be at work, you can function well grabbing a couple of hours sleep when the baby sleeps etc) it's a lovely way to spend the first months with your daughter. I bet she's thriving. My personal opinion- I'm not really particularly into Gina Ford to be honest- is that this is an ideal way to be with a small baby, if you can stand it (though many can't!).
In the 2nd half of the 1st year it seems that many babies (and mums) tend to like a wee bit more structure to their days- regular nap times, feeding times, a proper long sleep at night. If you're going back to work all this obviously takes on more importance. But you can do it!! Gina Ford has lots of advice on routines, as you'll have seen from Pupuce's post, but you can also put a much simpler structure in place if it all seems a bit much- try starting by putting her down for an afternoon nap at roughly the same time each day and settling her to bed at roughly the same time each night.
HTH- Keep smiling!

Scout - Of course you haven't done anything wrong ! Babies are not always easy to get your head around and some babies are much easier than others.
You mentioned crying... and I know you are very busy... if you feel a lot of tension, maybe you need a bit of help from a friend for a few days or maybe you suffer from PND ?
This isn't failing but no ones finds having a new baby easy.... so please don't feel like you're not doing a good job.
This is far more common than you think.

Scout, you have so much of my sympathy, I went through exactly the same with my dd for about a month starting when she was 6.5 months (she's now just turned 10 months). Like yours, she'd always been a really cheery, laid-back little soul, and we'd incorporated her into our lives very easily. We had a very hectic social life, which the wee one participated in fully, and either went away or had folk to stay practically every weekend.

And it was all entirely delightful. But then it all got a lot more complicated, in just the ways you describe.

I think it was mostly emotional upheaval, mainly because of the developmental things Malmomum and Scummymummy mention - I still think that internal, emotional 'weather' is what's most likely to disturb her sleep, eating etc, though teething, colds and so on are definitely factors too.

For those reasons, I decided to go with the flow as far as possible, and try to give her what she seemed to need, i.e. vast love, reassurance, and - though it sounds mad to say this about a 7 month old! - 'babying'. I sort of felt that the desire to drink mummy-milk rather than eat solids might have been down to a sense on her part that she was growing and changing so fast, and a need to slow down and step back for a bit. I made this decision partly because that month was very hectic and a bit unsettled for all of us, and it felt that it would be hard on her to make major changes then. But it was very hard on me, and I demanded major support from the near and dear ones.

BUT when, a month later, life stabilised and calmed down a bit, and she was if anything worse re sleeping and eating, and by then we were BOTH totally grumpy and miserable because neither of us was getting enough rest - then we got tough, and did controlled crying, which helped enormously (though it was hideous, and you should definitely rope in some of your numerous visitors to help you through it!). And that transformed life for both of us.

So what's the point of this long narrative, I'm wondering - I think partly just to say I know how you feel, and partly to say yes, it is a phase, don't beat yourself up, and you will all come through it. And my dd is so utterly fabulous now, even more uproariously delightful than at 6 mths, which I'd never have believed possible - so the rewards for getting through this dificult bit are enormous. It sounds like you may be getting tehre anyway.

But I think the main thing I want to say is BE KIND TO YOURSELF - this is a really hard time for you, and going back to work is so emotionally difficult, even if (as I was, when I went back at 5 months) totally into your job and happy about doing it again. Make sure you look after yourself plenty, Scout, as well as caring so much about what goes on in your baby's little world.

I wonder if i can put out an appeal for help/advice. Sorry to hijack the thread but this is a sleep problem. My dd (9mth) slept through the night (ie from 7.30pm to 6.30am) at 2mths which was fantastic, esp as I went back to work when she was 5mth. But now she has decided to start waking at night. This has gone on for several weeks now, intermittently. At first I thought it was teeth but she has cut two a while ago and still wakes. What happens is - down to sleep after normal routine (bath, milk etc) at 7-7.30, usually awake, drops off quite happily; sometimes sleeps thru as normal to 6am or so; but sometimes (eg last 2 nights) wakes screaming. Pick her up and she goes completely quiet. Sit with her and she actually falls asleep; move to put her back in the cot again and she screams! She can't be hungry and anyway am not about to start night feeding again. Don't really think she can be in pain (eg teeth) as she calms down when held. Thing is, what can i do? sleep deprivation starting to take its toll after so many months of uninterrupted snooze. Have no experience to draw on as ds woke for milk at night till he was 7mths. Only silver lining is that he hardly ever wakes, even when she screams the place down. Wd welcome any advice/tips.

Can anyone help me? My son is now six months old. He has never done anything like sleep through the night (always woke up twice - 2am and 5am, then started waking at 11pm) Now he wakes at least three times every night (first time between 10.30 and midnight, then around 2am and then around 4-5am (quite often both - aaargh!) and then wakes around 7am. Sometimes he stays awake in the night for an hour even when I've tried just about everything, including taking him into bed with me. He gets very upset, particularly if I don't breastfeed him. I am seeing a sleep specialist health visitor but it's just getting worse and worse. He used to go down like a log between 7pm-ish and 11pm - now he wakes up and is unsettled between those times. I know I have a lot of milk because when I express I get loads - up to 9oz or more during the day, and after a feed I can still express more. His sleep is quite disturbed, sometimes he claws at his face and leaves horrible scratches -even draws blood. He's a good eater and I wonder if he eats too well as he feeds reasonably at 5am or 7am (I give in if he's screaming at 5am treat that as the first feed and go straight to breakfast - porridge & banana at 7am) but has cut right back on his afternoon feed. He goes to a childminder three days a week and often refuses the bottle all day (expressed milk) so only eats food. I try to give him those formula milk yoghurts to make up a bit. He sleeps for 45mins around 9am, but doesn't always sleep so well in the afternoon and sometimes has a nap later . but doesn't sleep better or worse if he doesn't. He has lunch at 12ish and tea at 5ish. He goes down in various ways - sometimes with his dummy, sometimes fed to sleep and sometimes put down awake (he prefers to suck himself to sleep and has always been an extremely sucky baby). No one method seems to make any difference to his night wakings. I am on my knees with sleep deprivation and sometimes feel so upset and so angry with him. I feel completely hopeless about it all - everyone said his sleep would get better but it isn't. He's pretty cheerful during the day, though he hates being put down on the floor for more than five or ten minutes. We tried CC but after three hours solid, unceasing crying (checking him/patting etc made no difference) he was still going strong - no decrease in volume whatsoever, hysterical and sobbing - and I couldn't take it anymore and gave him a quick feed and his dummy. I would welcome any help at all that anyone can offer. I am going to bed earlier and earlier and want a bit of life back!

HELP!
xx

Wells1 - how challenging for you!
My genuine piece of advice is to read Gina Ford : The contented little baby book. I know it isn't everyone's cup of tea but if you don't know about her - have a look. Several of us think her book is VERY useful and have found her a life saviour. And a lot of mums have come to it when they were in a similar situation to yours.
There are several things in your story which you will find she addresses in her book. You don't need to follow her routines if it isn't for you. IME most mums in your situation, do... at least to try to get some normality back in their life. Up to them if they stick to them.

Wells1, I remember those days or nights should I say so can sympathise 100% and say they will get better. My dd is now a good night sleeper - hope I haven't jinxed myself by saying this. She never slept well from birth and used to wake for breast feeding every 2 hrs - I never found the miracle cure I am afraid and she ended up in our bed permanently till she was weaned on to formula. Everyone else seems to have excellent sleepers from birth or so it seems when you are sleep deprived. I intend to be more prepared with 2nd one due september so Pupuce's suggestion re Gina Ford is definitley on my list. One thing we did find helpful was once she was in her cot we started giving water in bottles and using a musical light show (the neighbours must hate winnie the pooh) and she gradually associated this with sleep - now I just say "it's night time go to sleep" in a low, gentle tone, should she dare to wake.

Hi there

I've actually read Gina Ford and he sort of is in her routine - except I have trouble getting him to take two hour naps in the afternoon and he doesn't want much (or any) milk at 2.30. But she doesn't give any advice on night waking after a certain point - all her babies have obviously given up getting up! I think her cure would probably be to do more cc - but I can't take the hours and hours of crying. I have tried him with water but he won't take it and it makes him absolutely go ballistic. he is sometimes settled with a cuddle instead of a feed, but still wakes up later. I don't mean to sound like I'm dismissing anyone's suggestions, it's just that I feel as if I've tried everything except gin...

Queenie, when did your baby sleep through? Give me some hope!

Wells - Have you read GF recently though ? I ask because we quickly forget and also becasue she does NOT advocate CC at all !!!! She mentions it but doesn't even tell you how to do it.
You shouldn't have to resort to CC at his age.
My daughter is 1 month older so I can easily visualise a 6 months old...
One mnore thing on GF - my experience and others (like Bloss) will tell you that for more "challenging babies" , GF workd well if you really do it 100% - half way doesn't work. Once GF's routine is well established you can relax but this is after a few days (week) of following the routine quite easily.

I am shooting in the dark here - hope this helps a bit maybe it's all too simple...

Does he have a dark room ?
IMO he isn't waking from hunger in the middle of the night but looking for comfort so go for the cuddle and then back in his bed. He may just need re-assurance.
Could he be teething- has he always scratched his face like this ? I mean he is at the teething age and maybe in big pain ??? Could he have some eczema ? Has he started scratching since you introduced some formula ?
If he has been getting worst recently I would think it might be down to teething or dairy intolerance.

I personnally would not wory too much about his milk intake - I have 2 friends who'se baby refused bottles so had no more breastmilk or formula from 6 months onwards... like you they started "cheating", adding breastmilk or formula to porridge, or giving more yogourt, etc Don't panick per se at his lack of bottle interest.

What you are worried is his sleeping... And I am sure the Gin must sound like a tempting idea at the moment. Who gets up in the middle of the night ? Does your DH/DP gets up ? How does it go then ?

You don't seem to have followed the GF routine as you say that he started waking up at 11 PM... maybe I am missunderstanding you ? Also I think you need a bit of consistence (please don't take this the wrong way) but maybe he is confused... feeding to fall asleep or dummies are what GF calls wrong sleep association... maybe he is confused ??? Have you tried music in his cot ?
When my DD had a difficult patch, I went in at 7PM, gave her a cuddle for 2 or 3 minutes in the dark, to calm her down, I would whisper in her hear or hum a song and then leave... I found that I had to be very calm myself for it to work. Sometimes, she would cry when I would put her down but 1 minute later it was over... I took it to mean... "oh mummy I don't want to go down,... but I am tired so......" IYKWIM

Hope you find some help in this.... good luck

Wells1, I would say dd probably slept right through from 12 mths but, before you sob at the prospect, she reduced her waking from every 2 hours to once a night by 9 mths which I coped with. However, just when you think you've passed a hurdle they get a cold, teeth start up and routine crumbles or even going on holiday as we did at Christmas to in-laws and had difficulty in getting her back to her own cot for a week or so in January. I too am terrible at CC and understand your desperation. What I tried to do was give something a go, if it didn't work I'd give in, and try a little while later say in a week - this worked with the water but I had to gradually dilute milk until after 3 weeks + it was just water. With the sleeping in my bed issue basically the same - if one night crying was unbearable when she was put in the cot I'd take her out and I'd wait another few nights - she now says BED when tired and we just go up with her to her cot, although her bed time is 8.30 to 9.00 pm. However, if you told me this would happen when she was 6 or 7 months I would have doubted it very much. As they get older favorite toys can accompany them and dd has 3 dummies on her pillow to greet her - only allowed at bed time and she whoops when she see's them. I really wish you a break through and some well needed sleep. Best of luck.

Wells1, not suggesting you introduce dummies at this stage if never used them b4 - I'll be looking for suggestions soon on how to wean off dummy dependancy as I hate them but needs must. Weak first time mother and all that!

Wells1 - there is a helpline at the back of the clb book . You can call gina (or her secretary) and employ her on a telephone consultancy basis. She does 1hr for £60, 2hrs £90. She's no nonsense, funny but firm and gets straight to the point (so as not to waste time and money). If you want to go the gf route, and are having difficulties with the routine I would really recommend it. I spoke to her several times and she was just fab! Good luck

Hey Manna- as the unofficial GF helpline, do you think I should charge ???

Definitely - you ould be raking it in! I think all she does is the telephone stuff and writing now - no more late nights and dirty nappies for Gina

Hi All!

Again, glad to know I'm not alone... Actually the 11pm waking happened when he was usually waking up first at 2am and I read in GF that it was a good idea to wake the baby to give a top up of milk to get them sleeping longer. Sadly, it just added an extra waking and he still woke at 2am!! I have given Calgel and Calpol for teething but most of the time he doesn't seem in pain. For the last couple of nights my husband has done the night shift - I've had a hideous cold and felt awful, and ds didn't want any milk at all, so I feel I can safely say it isn't hunger, but, as you say, comfort. I do use a dummy. I put him down without one, but tend to weaken when I'm dog tired at 3am and need him to sleep. I know it's a bad sleep association but I have no willlpower at that time of night....

I think he probably does need to stick to a tighter routine than I have given him so far - the big problem is that he goes to a childminder three days a week and she isn't as strict as I would need for it to work. Plus, his afternoon nap is hard to enforce - he usually sleeps at roughly the right time, but rarely for more than an hour. He cries and cries if I try to leave him once he has woken up.
Oh, and yes, he does have a dark room with blackout blinds etc at night, but still wakes up, the little fiend!
Still, I have him on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday and will do my best to do the routine with him to see if it helps - especially as I now know he's not hungry.
Wish me luck
x

I envy the mother who can wake up several times a night an not feel the after effects. I feel like I've got a permanent hangover...

Wells1, how are you going on the routine? Did any of these tips work?

Ds is now five months and has turned from an OK baby into a little horror. Used to nap for half an hour in the morning, two-three hours in the middle of the day, off to sleep at 7pm, wake at midnight and 4am, and be woken at 7-8am. At about 3 months I thought we were heading for nirvana, ie sleeping through. But instead he has got steadily worse and worse - now he naps for half an hour at mid-day, wakes screaming and won't go back to sleep, and will only catnap in the afternoon if I'm lucky and we happen to be out and about in the buggy. He never sleeps at home in the afternoon. Still goes to sleep at 7-7.30pm very easily, but wakes at 10-10-30pm, then at 1am, 3am, and 5am - at which point I drag him into bed and we go off to sleep together until 7.30am, when I am forced by vague feelings of guilt to wake him and start the day - occasionally we sleep through to 8am, but then he's up.

We do a full-ish feed at 10.30pm - usually we change his nappy halfway to make sure he is awake for the second breast. He goes off to sleep quite happily at the 7pm and 10.30pm feeds. But during the night he will not sleep unless I feed him - usually I give him one breast at a time until the morning - when not surprisingly he is rather off his feed. We've tried just seeing if he will settle himself without feeding - usually he will drop off only to wake half an hour later still unsettled. I have lots of milk (I think) so I don't think it's a quantity problem.

DS is also a terrible day-feeder - hates nursing in public, often fails to feed well at the two mid-day feeds. But this might be due to all the nursing at night, it's hard to tell. Weight gain has been slow but positive at least - he is only on the 9th percentile for weight but the trend is upwards.

So my choices now seem to be:

• Move him out of our room. DH thinks this is the trick, but it is not feasible for at least one more month as parents are coming to stay. And I don't fancy trekking downstairs 3-4x a night - one reason I've been reluctant to do it.

• Try sleep training (ie letting him cry) and see if we can break the habit that way. So far what I've found is that he goes back to sleep but wakes again half an hour later. During the day he refuses and just screams.

• Try the sugar water trick (from GF). We used to use a dummy but it only worked sometimes - not enough to justify the feelings of guilt associated with its use.

• A bottle of formula at 10.30pm - variation is to give up breastfeeding altogether at night and try bottles. One problem is that DS has not yet taken a full feed from a bottle ever (whoops).

• Hope he will grow out of it as we start weaning. Have only started recently and rather half-heartedly because the kitchen is a bit inaccessible due to builders. DS is probably having about two TB of puree or rice a day at the moment - just for tasting more than anything.

Any views/experiences - what is most likely to work? Have to admit any attempts at sleep training have been only half-hearted, mostly because he gets even more worked up, and up to now I've thought he was a bit young for it. But a month of sleepless nights (and days!) is getting to me....

Florenceuk, I'm afraid this sounds remarkably familiar! Mine and lots others were exactly the same, ie regular waking. My books say that a baby is not ready for sleep training until at least 6 months and this is for a baby who is on regular solids (ie 3 times a day), feeding well on this, ie is not waking due to hunger. I always felt with breastfeeding you just had to go with it, you never know how much they are getting at each feed so I felt I would just try feeding mine when she woke up and she always seemed to take it. I think until you start weaning and getting more food into Ds you may have to do the same.
You say Ds is not good at nursing in public, do you feel OK about doing this? It may be you feel a bit uncomfortable and so you are not getting the 'let down' (or whatever it's called!) reflex. If I ever felt uncomfortable, ie sometimes I did if I was on the bus or some similar public place, then I would wait until I found a clean toilet and sit on the closed lid of the toilet breastfeeding for as long as it took (sounds lovely doesn't it??!).
I would try and feed for longer during the day, even if this means you offer the breast more often, even before he starts crying. I would try a bit more weaning, maybe introduce a baby cereal which you could give at any time. Some babies definitely need regular solids at 5 months and maybe he is just hungry and needs to start his solids. If your in the middle of a new kitchen why not try a jar food to make things easier, I found the Organix jar foods really good and they do quite a few different baby cereals.
I would suggest you try increased solids and, hopefully, more breast milk before you start on the controlled crying technique, I don't think he's ready yet (IMO) as it is very likely that he is having a bit of a growth spurt and actually needs more feeds.
Good luck, I know it's knackering so sorry I can't offer a miracle solution!

Florenceuk, sounds like a hungry baby. My son behaved very similarly until he started to have a decent amount of solids. The books always recommend 'two tablespoons' or somesuch, in my experience make up a bowlful of cereal with veg/fruit puree for example, and keep feeding him until he refuses more. Boys especially grow a huge amount in the first year and by 7 months definitely need a lot of 'real' food. Let us know how you get on.