Did you give your children specific bedtimes at 3 monthsold?

[ragtaggle]

Aaaargh... I'm drowing in a sea of conflicting baby book advice. I've tried to follow the advice of a combination of GF and Tracey Hogg with my 3.5 month old dd but I'm still having problems getting her to sleep at night. I thought I'd ask advice here from people who aren't making a living out of us first time mothers so here goes...

Until recently my dd has always been very good at settling herself to sleep (She's been in her own cot in her own room from one month old) but recently she's started getting really upset at bedtime. I give her a specific routine - bath and massage before bed, not too much sleep throughout the day etc etc but whatever i do come bedtime she starts to kick off. We try to put her to bed awake (like we're supposed to.....)but when we put her down she starts shouting and then begins crying if we try to leave her to settle herself. I tried doing pu/pd but it worked for 3 days and then got bad again (And I relented really as I didn't enjoy seeing her so upset) It's not sleeping in general she finds hard at this time (she's usually knackered by seven or eight and would happily go to sleep on my lap) - just going to sleep in her own cot.

The thing is I really understand why she doesn't want to sleep in her cot on her back, in just her gro bag. It's nowhere near as cosy as it is face down on my stomach or a cushion in the front room with lights and noises in the background. ( I don't mind her being face down when I can see her) I'm at the point of deciding to let her fall asleep on me and then taking her up at the end of the night. (After a certain time she doesn't usually wake up so I know this is reasonably 'safe'

What I want to know is what did other people do at this stage? Should I wait until she's six months before I get tough or am I creating a rod for my own back if I let her sleep the early part of the evening down here? I should say that once she goes down she usually stays down until around 5 or 6 when she feeds and then goes back to sleep until 8ish. So I have no complaints there but I'm starting to dread the evenings at the moment. She's such a sweet, happy baby throughout the day and I hate to see her tears at bedtime... what does everybody think?

I think maybe 3mths is a bit to young to have a strict routine. I think that my 3 had a proper bed time routine from about 5 months. Have you tried putting her in her cot for a daytime nap ?? If you can get her to do that then she should associate her cot with sleep.

My DDs a bit younger but she stays with us until we go to bed and then shes asleep until 7/8am.
She's just started to sleep longer in the evenings, so I'll think about putting her down on her own when I'm more confident she is ready to sleep all evening as well. If I remember rightly I did this with DSs too.

My DD1 wouldn't go to sleep in her cot, she had to be asleep before I put her in it. Do whatever makes you happiest. DS went & DD2 currently goes in the cot awake and goes to sleep on their own.

Ragtaggle, it sounds as if you're doing all the right things, to me at least. My ds1 was the same, would sleep on or with me from 8pm, but not in his moses basked or cot until around 11pm. I must admit that I'm not a fan of Gina F and don't agree with strict discipline for small babies, so I was quite happy for him to go to sleep on me as that was where he felt comfy, and I couldn't bear the thought of him crying himself to sleep either. After a few months, I think he was about 5 or 6 months, I did get a bit tougher but sat by his cot until he nodded off, and yes there were tears, but only for a couple of days.
My ds2 was similar, and he stayed downstairs, with us, in his moses basket until we went to bed.
For what its worth, I'd say the best thing is the bath/bedtime routine, as that's what will help her to understand the "now we go to sleep" process.

Okay - quick update. Relented last night and let her sleep in lounge on cushion until 11. She then woke up screaming the minute we put her into her cot , at 11.10(Very unusual as never usually wakes until 5 or 6 in the morning once she's gone down) I fed her as three hours had passed until her last feed and she went back to sleep. She then woke up shouting at 2.50 am! She hasn't woken up this early since she was five weeks old..I fed her though and she went back to sleep until six thirty. It would seem that by not insisting she went to bed in her cot we've thrown her all out of whack. I woke up deciding I've got to stick to the original plan of putting her to sleep in her cot and go back to the normal routine.

So I started with this mornings nap - not good!
She normally goes down pretty well for this one but not today.I stayed near to her cot and comforted her every time she cried but she refused to settle at all. After 45 minutes of this she was due for a feed again so I fed her and she's now gone to sleep.

Truth be told she has started a pattern of refusing to sleep until she's fed for all her naps, regardless of how long since she last fed. And she won't take a dummy prefering to use me as one. Don't really know how to break this cycle - it's particularly irritating as she refuses the bottle. It means my dh can't feed her and I really can't go very far from her.

Hi Ragtaggle, I completely sympathise. We went through the same thing with our ds (now 6.5mo). All I can say is things do improve, and even though consistency gets them settled into a pattern, we've found the pattern changes every couple of months. Ie. we found ds would only sleep with a hair-drier on in the background from 2-4mo, the it moved to lullaby's, then to Coldplay, and now he's decided he wants to have his favourite toy in his hands (which is too big to hold as it's strapped to the side of the cot!) as he drops off. So once we've picked up on what settles him, we're consistent with it for a few months and then it changes again, and we become consistent with that.

Perhaps try her favourite music to calm her down? Different sleeping positions? Different toys? We found the Fischer Price Aquarium great as he could turn it on himself from about 3.5mo and he would sometimes drop off by himself witht the sound on.

As for being tied down, this started to get easier once ds started solids (at 4.5mo as he is a BIG baby who was exclus. brf). He never took a bottle either and I started him on spouted cups with water when he started the solids. Have a look at some of the breast/bottle pages. They've got good advice on this topic.

Hope tonight is easier for you.

Don't have time to read all, but my dd has always been in her own room in a cot in the dark and has always followed the same routine before bed and had the same bed time. I'd precevere, I think you will make a rod for your own back by giving in.

On the other hand she may feeling a little unwell and might want/need some extra comforting. I bend the rules when dd is poorly but then it's straight back to old routine again.

It works for us, I agree that you should do what you feel comfortable with

HI Ragtaggle ... DD used to always only be able to sleep on me whilst doing the rocking , shhhing ect . I would then move her to cot and continue patting and shhing ect but with a lot of help from me beforehand. I then decided that enough was enough and made a NY resoloution not to rock to sleep anymore. It has worked and I have not since ...

What helped me was reading somewhere (here on Mumsnet, or a book ?) that remember how long it took for yr DD to learn how to sleep the way she likes ? Then it wll also take that long to teach her to like her cot and to settle herself again. They are really smart, and of course will complain vigorously if you suddenly take away what they are used to. But in the same light, they are smart enough to also learn new tricks ...

I personally believe that you should act now , not necessarily CC (as I cld not do that either) ... I know that I felt so much better as a mother when she began to settle herself, and I must say she has become a better sleeper for it during the nights as she can settle herself back to sleep. IYr DD recent wakenings during the night would indicate that she has now associated you and yr warmth as a means to sleep and thats why she screams now when put down .

She did it before, she can do it again ... Hope I don't sound harsh !

You don't sound harsh, cords. I also believe that babies learn by association so I agree really. But you say not neccessarily cc - so what are you suggesting I do when she kicks off, then? Are you a fan of pu/pd as suggested by Tracey Hogg. I must admit that sometimes it seems like a silly idea - aren't you just provoking them by continually picking them up? But then again I definitely think she's too young for cc...Anyway thanks for all your help/advice suggestions - any more gratefully received

To be honest my baby (also 3 months) seems very similar - I normally put her in bed somewhere between 19:30 and 21:00, but have to cuddle her to sleep first (she has a sleeptime dummy too). I put her down when she is in a light sleep. I know all the books say that this is the wrong way to do it, but I did it with my son too, and he eventually reached the stage where he was happy to settle himself (certainly by about 9 months - probably earlier - don't quite remember). I never had to do cc or anything similar - although IU would say it is important not to put them down in a deep sleep.

Dunno if this is any help.

I think the picking up thing you mention will probably just upset her more. Will she let you hold her hand and just stand next to the cot without talking? Lots of people will think I'm awful, but have you just left the room and left her to cry at all? Some babies stop amazingly quicky if they realise they are on their own.

Perhaps she woke when you put her in the cot because it was cold(er) then the cushion she was on before - maybe put a hot water bottle in there for a few minutes before putting her in the cot?(remembering not to leave the hot water bottle in there of course!

My DD was a terrible sleeper too ... I have many times on this site posted desperate pleas for help, but for the past two weeks she seems to have settled ... I relly believe that my insistence on not rocking her to sleep has been the reason as she does not freak when she comes into light sleep and think "hang on, I am not in mummy's arms and being rocked" ...

I used the PU/PD method but instead of picking her up I lef t her in cot (on tummy) ... I instead, patted to tick tock rythym, (Calming as resembles heart beat when in womb) and shhh'd ... If she screams, shhhh louder than her. What this does is distract her from her crying . i even found that her rattle would do the same , just as a distraction. I would shhh really close to her ear and almost be on top of her so my presence was felt. The important thing is to PERSEVERE and also once settled, keep patting and shhh'ing until a deep slumber is acheived , otherwise, you have to just start again. I was always mystified and unconvinced, but having done it I am in awe .

Now when I put her down, 80% of the time she WILL whinge and cry but when you observe enough, you see that the crying does subside and that in fact it is the equivalent to us tossing and turning to get comfortable in bed. GIVE IT A GO !

I recently bought Dr Ferbers book, and found that it made a lot of sense. Also, rereading Tracey Hoggs also helped.

Hope this is encouraging. Do not despair !