HELP ! almost Four Months and things are getting worse! ! !

[cords]

Is it me ???? I am now starting to get depressed and neurotic . I have joined other threads before but feel that I need to summarise my dilema and hopefully get some much needed support and advice ...

a) DD is NOWHERE near settling during the night and sleeping longer spells . She currently wakes for feed at least 2x a night (night being a 12 hr spell ) . I try hard not to feed 3x. She also seems to wake every half to an hour from 4am onwards and so wakes up eventually looking sometime more shattered than me !

b) She does not seem to want to take a full feed (be it bottle or breast ) during the day ! It seems as if she wants to just satisfy her hunger and then her attention goes into something else . I try and offer her more breast after a break but no interest . However during the night she cannot get enough !

c) She still fights the bottle. I am tryting to stop b/f this month as she is coming up to 4 months and I feel that this is a good time to start weaning. Supposedly she can take 6oz...but max I can get her to take is 4 oz and that is rare ... It is hard to put her to bed knowing she has only had 3 oz and will need to feed sooner rather than later

c) She STILL needs to be rocked to sleep or at least fall into light sleep in my arms first UNLESS she is relaxed and very tired (RARE!) . I hve tried to leave her in her cot to whimper and hopefully resettle at night, but from expereince, the more she whimpers the harder it is to settle her again and so now she is used to me being there as soon as she wakes. HER CRY incidentally is very very verocious and sounds as if her tonsils might be spat out and her throat shredded from crying ...really really painful to hear.

d) SHe start crying and screaming if she realises that I am not around . On holiday over New Year , I could not go to the toilet without bringing her as leaving her with DP did not help at all . SHe is soooo clingy already !

SHe is a high maintenance baby but oh such a lovely, smart, happy one at most times ...

Are there any words of reassurance that things will get better ? I am aiming to wean her off B/F this month so that she does not expect to be fed at will during the night .... That in itself scares me !

Is there something that I can do to help her to be more settled ???

BUT BUT BUT , I am soooo tired and my energy is fading . I feel nervous each night I go to bed ...I simply cannot cope with enduring this for much longer !!!!

cords, no advice on the sleep I'm afraid - I'm knackered myself as dd is 5 weeks old, but what I do know is that things will get better, honestly they will. I comfort myself with this thought when it's the middle of the night and my dd is awake or feeding. It really does pass eventually, so hold that thought. In the meantime I'm sure others will have some good advice on the rest of your questions.

Firstly, I don't think it's you at all, everything you've described seems perfectly normal to me.

My dd, now 2 yrs, also struggled with sleep and 'routines' and I used to despair over her. She also had a cry which sounded like it could cut through glass! I used to sob over the fact that I was so useless I couldn't even get her to sleep.

However, like www I can say that things do eventually get better for both of you and, before you know it, it'll all just seem like a short phase (yes, I know you probably want to deck me for that!).

For me the most important thing I did to make myself feel better was to just go with gut instinct and accept that dd would not fit into the routine so many of my friends managed with their babies and I started to enjoy rocking her to sleep, accepted the fact that she never once resettled if woken during the night etc. that was just the way she was. I also started co-sleeping hich suited us although I can see perfectly that it isn't for everyone. I also decided not to worry about what would happen at night and once I stopped spending all day feeling stressed about 'failing' each night, I started to feel better in myself.

At about 6 or 7 months (see, it was all so important at the time and now I can't remember exactly!) she sort of found her stride and started to sleep so much better during the day and at night and since then she's been fine, give or take the odd bout of illness/teething.

Now, at 2 she doesn't fall alseep in my arms, she has her own bed (since 18 months), she is happy to be with her dad and seems to spend most of the day running around. Now I have ds, 17 weeks, I am enjoying the fact that he wants to snuggle in my arms, the fact that he falls asleep there and his lovely clinginess because I know that it won't last forever and I should enjoy it whilst I can. He wakes at least 3 or 4 times a night for a feed but I can cope with it as I know it won't be forever.

BTW, I seem to remember my HV advising night feeds until 6 months with dd but that may have changed.

So, not much practical advice, I never got dd more settled, just learned to be less stressed about it! Good luck.

Hi there cords, not really any advice as such, but just our experience of getting dd to drop off without being cuddled to sleep - with my dd (same age)I started to tackle it with the morning nap first, as this was her most relaxed time, and just made sure she wasn't hungry and looked really drowsy, and then put her down and left her to cry herself to sleep. It was horrible, but luckily its never taken her too long, and we gradually managed to crack it with all the other naps and sleep times too (she says, having had no luck getting dd down at all today!)we also play her nursery ryme cd quite loud as this seems to distract/relax her. She has been sooo much happier since getting decent sleep this way, rather than dozing off, being put down, waking again, crying, being picked up, put down again etc, which I'm sure meant she was getting really poor quality sleep. But there are times when her cry is so pained - like you describe - when we can't leave her, so we don't, and we always put a time limit on it, like 5 mins, 10 mins, because we think she's too young for controlled crying as such. I think you have to feel sure its the right thing to try - distracting yourself on mumsnet can be useful! (Sorry, waffley). I'm sure she will get more settled soon, and I heard they can go through a really clingy phase just now - not my DD, she doesn't give me a second glance when anyone more interesting is around i wonder if there's anyone you can call for advice, like NCT maybe? Hope it gets better, and do try to take a break even if she is upset by it - we all need some time off.

I think alot of babies (not all) will still need a night feed until they're 6 months.

The only adivce I can offer, and this is what is getting me through 2 hour feeds day and night due to what I think is a growth spurt, is that you have to be realistic about what your DD is capable of. Otherwise you can't help but feel it is all 'wrong'. Can she really go that long without a feed?

Perhaps you need to feed her in the day in a dark room so that she isn't distracted, as she seems to be able to feed properly in the night. How does she sleep in the day? Perhaps you can nap in the day when she does so you have the strength to tackle nights at night.

And you really can drive yourself crazy with how much of her bottle is getting into her, I would think if she is letting you know she feels full and she is gaining weight then she just has a smaller appitite then the babies on the tin.

goog afternoon cords - your experience sounds not too disimilar to my first one. The second one was the same But this time I knew what to expect, both breast fed on demand basically becasue I didn't know any different. My 3rd DD is 16 weks and although she doesn't always sleep through the night she is not totally fed on demand. I never thought I would say this but I used GINA FORDS books - the 7-7 routine, she has a section on this site I am not a slave to it but it cetainly acts as a good guide. If you get a chance to read it then you'll know what works for you - good luck oh and a BIG HUG for doing so well!

Poor you cords. Have you tried the put down pick up technique advocated by Tracy Hogg? See babywhisperer.com. There's a woman on the message board there who had been having terrible problems getting her three month old to sleep and found that using it not only taught him how to settle himself to sleep but that he also slept through the night for the first time. I did it myself last week when my dd (3 months) started deciding that 11-12pm was her bedtime. (Despite us putting her to bed at 8) After a fraught week with me and my dh up in her room every half hour and then finally bringing her down to the lounge with us I decided enough was enough. I could see that she was getting very overtired and crotchety and I was starting to resort to rocking her to sleep, which until now I'd managed to avoid doing (And she's a heavy baby )

I put her to bed at 8 and stayed near her cot picking her up once every time she cried - and reassuring her - but making it clear I wasn't going to relent - this is bedtime. It was a very painful, difficult hour and a half (You have to be prepared to be in for the long haul) But not only did it completely work but she then slept through until 8 (When would you believe I decided to wake her so that I could get her down at 8 that night too?) I used the same technique for her naps too and now I have my life back.

It sounds to me like your dd might need to be taught how to settle herself too - I don't think babies instinctively know how to sleep.Oh by the way, I did a 'dream feed' at 11pm just to be sure my dd was well fed. Slight fuss when I put her back down but I employed the same technique - this time it was only five minutes.

Re: your dd not being on the breast for long during the day. Is it possible that she has just become a more efficient feeder? (Less so at night when she's sleepy hence the long feeds?) Mine only takes 10 minutes each time now and is still gaining 10 0z a week. She used to take 20 mins- half hour so she's clearly just better at it now. Hope this helps. Good Luck

Just want to make clear that I was lovely to my dd throughout the whole pick up/put down thing. I've just re-read the 'making it clear this is bedtime' thing and realised it might look like I have been wagging my finger at my 3 month old!! What I meant by that was that I didn't take her down to the lounge but stayed by her cot, ready to pick her up and kiss her each time she cried but then putting her down again. Ie: Kept the whole thing to the bedroom.

Poor you cords. Have you tried the put down pick up technique advocated by Tracy Hogg? See babywhisperer.com. There's a woman on the message board there who had been having terrible problems getting her three month old to sleep and found that using it not only taught him how to settle himself to sleep but that he also slept through the night for the first time. I did it myself last week when my dd (3 months) started deciding that 11-12pm was her bedtime. (Despite us putting her to bed at 8) After a fraught week with me and my dh up in her room every half hour and then finally bringing her down to the lounge with us I decided enough was enough. I could see that she was getting very overtired and crotchety and I was starting to resort to rocking her to sleep, which until now I'd managed to avoid doing (And she's a heavy baby )

I put her to bed at 8 and stayed near her cot picking her up once every time she cried - and reassuring her - but making it clear I wasn't going to relent - this is bedtime. It was a very painful, difficult hour and a half (You have to be prepared to be in for the long haul) But not only did it completely work but she then slept through until 8 (When would you believe I decided to wake her so that I could get her down at 8 that night too?) I used the same technique for her naps too and now I have my life back.

It sounds to me like your dd might need to be taught how to settle herself too - I don't think babies instinctively know how to sleep.Oh by the way, I did a 'dream feed' at 11pm just to be sure my dd was well fed. Slight fuss when I put her back down but I employed the same technique - this time it was only five minutes.

Re: your dd not being on the breast for long during the day. Is it possible that she has just become a more efficient feeder? (Less so at night when she's sleepy hence the long feeds?) Mine only takes 10 minutes each time now and is still gaining 10 0z a week. She used to take 20 mins- half hour so she's clearly just better at it now. Hope this helps. Good Luck

I would recommend baby whisperer pick up/put down as well.

My Ds is 7 mo and the first PU/PD session took a nightmare three hours. It's been worth it though.

The best place to see the technique, I think, is on the Baby Whisperer programme on discovery health, (sky channel 196). It's on pretty much every day and there are only about 10 programmes so the ones you need come round pretty quick.

Had similar problems with dd2 (now 4). She was such a terrible sleeper, I used to feel sick at the thought of going to bed and sick at the thought of the day ahead as she was also extremely clingy. Im almost conivinced that her bad habits were brought on by the fact that i was told to wake her and feed her every 3 hrs as she only weighed 4lb 14oz at birth. In the end i dealt with the day time problems first of all as this seemed the easiest. I made sure she always had a sleep in the afternoon, but slept no later than 3pm. I did however have to push her to sleep in her pushchair, which carrried on until she was 3 and stopped having a day time sleep. I know that's not ideal but at least then i got nearly 2 hours to my self. As for the night time i'm afraid i can't offer much help other than trying the other things that have been suggested.