please help me find an approach - about to go insane

[rhetorician]

dd2 is 9 months; she is breastfed, and has some formula in the day (not much, really). She has a morning nap of 1-1.5 hours and an afternoon one of about an hour. She goes to bed around 7.30. She is fed to sleep (usually) and sleeps in her cot for her naps and for the first part of the night (but is put down asleep). She wakes always at around 2.30-3 (sometimes before, sometimes more than once) after which she is fed and has been coming in bed with us. The problem is that we are getting no sleep from 3-5 and we are both shattered. Tonight we have decided that she will not sleep with us, so dd has been awake and screaming for 2 hours now. No amount of PUPD, shushing, patting etc seems to help. I don't want to give in as this will surely just teach her that if she holds out we will have her back in bed with us.

Whatever happens tonight, what can we do? We can't go on having her in bed with us (she rolls around, kicks, pinches, nips) and we really need her to start sleeping better at night. I don't expect her to sleep through necessarily (would be nice!) simply to go back to sleep in her own cot after she wakes for a feed.

Ideas?

anyone?

You will get different responses on this.

My experience - at 10 / 11 months old DS2 was waking 3 or 4 times a night, up from 5am. He was being fed each time and taking time to resettle.

He was eating 3 solid meals a day, plenty of food.

So we did a version of CC. Basically, the first night, I didn't feed before midnight and DH sat in with him, cuddling, patting him back to sleep until he dropped off.

After a couple of nights, I didn't feed before 2am, when he woke DH cuddled / patted him back to sleep.

Then at 4am same thing.

After a few nights, he was sleeping through until 5am. There were tears, inevitably, but DH always sat with him until he went to sleep. I knew he wasn't alone, even if he was upset that his expectation of milk at every wake up wasn't being met. He cuddled him if he was distraught and just patted his back if he was crying (with DS in the cot).

It wasn't nice (I cried downstairs). But it worked and then DS didn't expect to be fed in the night.

Then took 2 years to stop him waking at 5am EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Another strategy is to ensure she doesn't get fed to sleep and to break that association.

I've read somewhere (can't remember where) that how they fall asleep at 7 or whenever determines the rest of the night. She is expecting to be fed to sleep. Why don't you try feeding her until she isn't asleep and putting her down awake / patting her to sleep in her cot? That way, you'll know she has a belly full of milk and she'll begin to learn how to fall asleep in a different way?

sheeplikessleep yes, I think that has to be the first step; ironically it's happened because she drops off this way quite easily, unlike dd1 who howled and screamed and cried, but we took action much earlier with her.

I don't know if this could work for you but we've just managed to stop the feeding to sleep association at nearly 12 months.

It may have worked earlier but I didn't learn about the "technique"!

We do bath, nighttime feed in chair next to cot (I had got into the habit of feeding DS to sleep lying on our bed as it was more comfy for me but it was hard to break in the night), then book (always the same until DS gets used to the routine) then into cot with songs and patting or holding his hand until asleep.

I got the idea from lucidlady's thread about Andrea Grace.

DS cried and screamed for 30minutes the first night but I didn't take him out of his cot and just cuddled him through the bars and lay him down and sang to him. The next night he was asleep after 10 mins and now, 2 weeks later, he falls asleep in 5 - 20 minutes after being put in his cot with varying amounts of whinging/crying.

He still wakes up in the night though but does stay in his cot all night. I usually have to feed him a bit 2 or 3 times and most times he falls asleep easily in his cot again.

Andrea Grace's book says you must expect tears as they are tears of frustration at you changing the habit. But you must stay calm and controlled whilst sitting next to your baby. They really pick up on your distress which is where I think I was going wrong before because I hated hearing him cry.

I make sure I watch the clock whilst he's in his cot and when I'm tempted to pick him up because he's crying I look at the clock and realise it's not even been 10 minutes!

Oh and pick your moment to start. I kept putting it off because I knew that the first few nights would be even worse than usual and I was too shattered to even contemplate giving up what little sleep I had!

Plus you need to gear yourself up to losing the first couple of evenings, at least you will if like me you usually go to bed not long after your LO!

I get up every night with DD2 (22months), usually a quick bottle of milk and she'll go off but recently she's been crying for up to 2 hours. If it's intermittent crying with quiet bits I just leave her and she might settle. If it's loud or continuous I go in every 10-15 mins. Quietly reassure her that I'm there, settle her back under the covers and stroke her hair/rub back while telling her to think quiet thoughts and then go to sleep; I will be nearby. 2 minutes more of rubbing back then I go back to bed and lie down for 10-15 mins before repeating.

I also recommend rescue remedy for you and DD. It might work, but even if you don't believe in that nonsense it doesn't I feel morally like I've done everything I can and feel calmer anyway. Which is what it would do if it works. Which I believe it does.

some very helpful suggestions here - thanks. will discuss with DP :)