Overtired or too much sleep? 15 mo waking early...

[PPL]

Hello everyone

My DS is 15 mo and has started waking at 530. We've been quite lucky with wake up times so far, although have had our fair share of other sleep problems - bedtime battles and night wakings etc.

Been sleeping through for a couple of months now thank god, but this early waking is pretty painful.

I keep telling myself it is because he is over tired but I have a feeling I may have to concede that he simply does not need as much milk as those babies who seem to sleep like there's an olympic medal at stake.

Until recently he has been napping for 20-30 mins in the morning around 945-10, and then for 60-90 mins after lunch at 130 ish.

I had tried cutting down to one nap which was going ok, he'd sleep after an early lunch at say 1130-12, depending on wake up time (usually around 630-7) and nap for anywhere between 1 and 2 hours. He was having a relatively early bedtime during this time but seemed exhausted most of the time. But happy enough. It's always been difficult to get him to nap much longer than 2x40 min sleep cycles, yet he self settles during the night so am inclined to think he just isn't tired enough to sleep longer.

Having just had a week away we've slipped back into 2 nap days and not only has bedtime crept later but these early wake up have been the real killer.

Does he simply not need that much sleep (11-12 hours and night and 1 hr during the day?) I keep reading that early wake ups are caused by overtiredness? Also he always wakes up and cries, from naps and in the morning.

I have tried to keep him up today from a 530 start to try going back to one nap, but he had conked out by 1045 as I just couldn't keep his eyes open long enough to attempt lunch. What do I do if he only sleeps an hour! What a long afternoon that will be!

Please help me fix thee early starts!

He only slept for 45 mins :(

Hmm not sure I'm going to be much help but wanted you to know we're in a similar boat with 19 month old DS - he wakes anywhere between 6 and 7am, has one nap of an hour at most, is asleep by 8 most nights. He shows signs of over tiredness (bumping into things, meltdowns over tiny little things, running round like some manic thing etc) but adamently refuses to nap longer, take a second nap, go to sleep earlier at bedtime or sleep in later in the mornings.

However like your DS he is self settling at night and sleeping through most of the time so I don't feel I have cause for complaint - its really hard to cope with such a cranky toddler but I've read about sleep regressions and development that they go through around this age that effects sleep and all I can do is hope it gets better in the coming months (especially as DC2 is due next month) and pray he doesn't drop the nap completely before he's about 4!

Hopefully someone will come along with some good suggestions in a minute or at least reassurance that it's normal/doesn't last forever!

PPL - I think you are doing the right thing trying for the 1 nap again - it def sounds like returning to 2 naps is what has caused your early waking again. I don't think for a minute that at 15months he's having too much sleep.

Unfortunately there is no easy way to get back to the 1 nap, without him getting overtired. I have been in your position & the way I had to do it was start off with a very early nap, at 10-10.30am, and then every few days/week I would push it 15mins later, until we got to lunchtime. By pushing it gradually like this he could just about cope with it, though he was very overtired for a while. We did have some days with short naps (like you had today). On those days, if he was particularly tired I would take him for a drive later in the afternoon & he'd have a catnap which helped him make it through to bedtime, or I would do a super early bedtime of 5.30 or 6pm (which IMO is the better option) & he would sleep right through, making up for the lost sleep overnight.

After a few weeks of getting used to the 1 nap I found his naps lengthened & he would readily sleep a consistent 2hrs+ & then I was able to extend his bedtime back to 7pm.

Thanks for both of your replies.

NiceCupofTea he is very much like that - often an overtired mess! Today he seemed to the outsider a lovely, chirpy little boy, but I knew it was hyper active overdrive! He also suffered a fair few irrational meltdowns.

He hardly ate any dinner, threw most of it on the floor during a fit of the giggles, and then conked out while bfing at 615! So he's had an early night as you suggested omama. Fingers crossed he makes it a 12 hour stint!

So now, do you think I need to stick rigidly to one nap a day? If he wakes at 530 and only naps for one hour, after a few days he's going to be a nightmare!

Thanks

Going from my own experience in the last few months I would say don't 'rigidly' go by anything - have a rough idea in place that you're going to try one nap but be open to him changing the rules and just let it be. The only thing I try and stick to is no nap after about 4.30 or he'll never settle at night, but if that does happen we tend to take him out in the buggy for half an hour and the fresh air seems to 'reset' him so he'll be a little more manageable. At 15 months we spent night after night trying to get him down at 6.30, it was taking 2 hours every night and we were getting so fed up.. In the end we pushed bedtime back by at least an hour and he now goes down in less than 20 minutes most nights, on his own too (by which I mean after a feed, no rocking/cuddling etc which is a miracle for us) - I constantly remind myself "do what works at the time" and it's a good philosophy to live by, I spent the 1st year of my DS's life worrying and getting uptight about his lack of sleep/the effect it had on him but it didn't change a thing, I'm slowly learning to go with the flow (and get him away from relatives when he starts getting manic because all they want to do is wind him up more) and will try to be more chilled out with DC2. You can't make a baby sleep (why did I think they just dropped off when tired before having one?!) - all you can do is provide the right conditions and opportunity. Hope things improve for you soon :)

I would do if its at all possible. If he zonks out for 2 naps of course there's nothing you can do, but if he'll just take the one then I'd do it. Yes he will be horrendous for a while, but the purpose of pushing the nap later is to stop the early waking cycle & so if you can keep that in mind it will hopefully give you the strength to get through.

Good luck.x

Oh god, it's hideous! We were up at 5am today, the earliest yet, and he has been unbelievably hyper all day. And throwing tantrums like I haven't seen before!

He slept from 1045 - 1215, and a little catnap from 315-330. Now he's screaming blue murder in his cot because he thinks he isn't tired enough for bed :( I'm tired enough to collapse HOW CAN HE NOT BE TIRED!!!!

Oh bless you, having BTDT I feel for you, I really do. That was some good advice from nicecupoftea btw! I hope he settled relatively quickly. Hopefully a decent night will help turn it round. Just keep on & eventually it will settle. Promise.xx

I just realised I posted without replying to both of your messages! Thank you both - all good advice I think.

nicecupoftea - I also spent most of the first year agonising over sleep. I can't believe how much time I wasted, when in actual fact nothing I did changed anything! My DS's bedtime is even more fragile than yours by the sounds of it - I have come to realise that any day time sleep after 2.30pm kills any chance of a decent bedtime!

I hope tonight we get a better night. Last night he woke around 10pm with I think a night terror - he was going crazy and nothing would calm him. I think night terrors can be caused by overtiredness?

Fingers crossed!

Yes (about night terrors) but really try not to give yourself anything else to worry about/obsess over. I too have worried about over-tiredness and the potential effects of not getting enough sleep (I used to worry he wouldn't grow properly, why? I have no idea as he's always grown just fine) but honestly I think all worrying does is make us uptight and obsessed with DC having to go to sleep and doesn't make the blindest bit of difference to whether they actually do.

I guarantee if you spend a few days going with the flow (easier said than done I know but if he looks tired take him for a nap, if he doesn't fall asleep do something else) he will fall into a natural rhythm. For us it was difficult because DS literally dropped 3-4 hours of sleep (over 24 hours) overnight and I was so focused on the damage it must be doing and trying to fix it that I didn't just accept he wasn't tired when we were trying to put him to bed

It's also worth checking if he's going through a development leap as these massively effect sleep and temperament.

Good luck!

I do have the wonder weeks app and no, he isn't going through a leap but he is learning a lot vocally at the moment. I think that we have had the same problem - he has seemingly gone from needing 15hrs sleep to about 12. I worry less about him and his development than my sanity and health! I let myself get so so exhausted and I find it really hard to push through the tiredness barrier as most mums seem to manage so well.

Thanks again for your messages

PS - I am quite envious of you having another DC on the way! I have been holding out for a more predicatble sleeper before we try but I fear that may never happen.
Congratulations!

Don't wait for that if you're ready now! Because 1) it might never happen and you'll have missed the 'window' and more likely like us 2) your DS will become a much better sleeper as the months pass... We're in such a better place than we were a few months ago; DS sleeps better, is able to communicate and is much less 'work' than when I first fell pregnant. I'm glad it didn't happen any earlier but I'm also glad we didn't hold off making the age gap bigger - I think he's as ready for a sibling as he'll ever be now (he's currently stroking my bump) :)

definitely don't wait! We waited for things to settle before starting TTC again & are now 7 months in with no baby in sight. Age gap will be 3yrs minimum now :-(