Ridiculous 6 mo bedtimes - please tell me what you think of my plan

[Suchanamateur]

Ive posted several times before about my nearly 7 mo DD and her settling problems. Bedtimes have become silly. Having put her down at a time when I know she's tired but not overtired, with a decent amount of day sleep behind her, she then will squeak and roll around her cot, occasionally stopping to suck her thumbs. I used to be able to pat her to sleep (and can for naps), but I'll pat her till asleep or very very nearly and she'll stay like that for 10 mins or so, and then jerk onto her back and start burbling and squeaking. And repeat. By which time shes overtired and manic- although not upset. Then all we can do is leave her and eventually, over an hour later and by that point crying, she'll sleep.

I'm fed up of 45 minutes of pointless patting and her getting increasingly overtired from these long bedtimes. We've tried just leaving her before (ie. no patting following bedtime routine) and she has taken about 2 hrs to settle (about the same as with pointless patting). She only cried right at end of that.

Do you think that if I do this - ie. put down and leave- consistently, she'll get the message after a few days? It would be like controlled crying I guess, although she doesn't cry... I'm just nervous about doing it for a week and ending up with an overtired wreck of a baby and no quicker settling. But that's happening every night in 2 anyway.

Sorry for the length of this, but I want to find a way to get her the sleep she needs. I never thought I'd say it, but I wish she fed to sleep...

Maybe she needs that hour of quiet time. Can you put her in her cot and let her babble while you read or watch quiet tv. Maybe then she'll sleep.

I think that's what I'll have to do. The problem is that after an hour/ hour an a half, she then gets upset because she's so tired.

If she doesn't cry when you lay her down I'd def just walk out & leave her to chatter, its not cc as she is not crying.

what's her daytime routine look like? wakeup time, naptimes/lengths & bedtime?

when babies start taking ages to fall asleep & are happily babbling for ages it can often be a sign they aren't tired enough to fall asleep. If she still takes a nap at tea-time I'd say that may be the cause. Most babies drop this nap between 6-9 months (mine was about 5-6 months)

xx

She's on 3 naps still (although we are getting 3rd nap refusals). Wake up between 6-6.30. First nap a couple of hours later, and then a bit over 2 hours between the rest of the naps and bedtime. Her awake time that allows me to get her to sleep reasonably easily for naps seems quite short.

I had wondered whether she just wasn't tired enough at bedtime but when I had managed to pat her to sleep 45 minutes later than 'bedtime' she was doing the 40 minute later wake up distraught thing, which I took for overtiredness. Also, on days when she's missed her catnap, she hasnt settled any easier, just refused to feed and bitten me :(

Thank you for the encouragement to leave her. I will continue to try and tweak her routine.

Oh and naps are usually 2 short (35/40 mins) and one long (1.5 ish).

The wakeup post bedtime does sound like OT. What can happen is, when they aren't tired enough at actual bedtime, they can take so long to fall asleep that by the time they eventually do, they can be overtired. I do suspect it may be down to that last nap.

Do you put her to bed any earlier on the days she refuses that 3rd nap? If you don't, its something I would definitely do in the short term - just until she drops the nap fully & gets used to staying awake that bit longer.

can I ask which is the long nap? can you write it down eg

up: 6-6.30
nap: 8.30-???
nap:
nap:
bedtime:

If her naps are generally short at 40mins, its probably because she's not quite tired enough to sleep for longer. Typical awake times at her age are about 2.5-3hrs, and many babies naturally follow the 2,3,4 routine so awake for 2hrs then nap, awake for 3hrs then nap, awake for 4hrs then bed. So their day might look something like:

Up: 7am
Nap: 9-10am
Nap: 1-3pm
Bed: 7pm

It might be worth trying to aim for something like that & you may find she takes 2 decent length naps & she can manage without that 3rd one. Regardless, it will only be a few more weeks before she outgrows it completely anyway, so hang in there & all should come good!x

Wow- thank you. You've given me hope. Maybe her end of day waketime isn't that weird after all, just comes too late? Is it normal for babies to have a big leap in wake times around this age (my DS was a serial catnapper and held on to all naps later than all his peers, and maybe I've been basing too much on him)?

Yup- missed 3rd nap= v early bed although same settling issues apply.

So today looked like this:

Wake- 6.20
Nap - 8.30- 9.10
Nap - 11.20 - 13.00 (resettled her half way through)
Nap - 3.20 - 4.20 (woke her from this one to preserve bedtime ha ha)
Put down- 6.30
Asleep - 7.50

I had to pat to sleep for all 3 naps (5mins each time). Sometimes, if i get the timing right she'll happily self settle for naps. She settled finally after 10 mins or so crying this eve, and hasn't been up since. We'll see what the rest of the night holds.

I think part of the issue is her undertired- yipping and playing in the cot - is very like her overtired. And she's generally a content little thing so wakes happy from her naps and is happy in the day even is she is under slept.

Thank you so much for your help.

Ah I think today's late bedtime def courtesy of a long & late nap!

Now I've seen her routine I'd say def work on very gradually (5mins at a time every few days) nudging her morning nap towards a 9am start. I think if you do, you will find she'll nap for a bit longer, which will push her next nap a wee bit later too, and so she will need that late afternoon nap less & less. I wouldn't cut it out altogether if she is still wanting it, or she will end up overtired, but perhaps you can a) limit it to 45mins max, maybe even 30mins to preserve BT, and b) expect that on the days she does take that nap, she may need to go to sleep a bit later.

At least she is content! I had a touchy wee man & I remember bedtime being pretty fraught most nights at that age - he would scream his lungs out when overtired!x

It will pass!x

I agree, I think the late nap is probably what is going wrong. I wouldn't let her sleep past 3 pm to ensure an easy bedtime.

At this age my dds had a nap 9-10am, then another nap 1-3 pm and then bed at 7/7.30 pm.

I would start putting her down and walking away without patting - she'll definitely get used to this quickly and be able to settle herself to sleep.

Good Luck!

Thank you all. I will try moving things gradually towards 2-3-4, and ensure that any third nap is short. I think I need to get out of a newborn mindset that I need to maximise all and every sleep. And no more patting at bedtime.

Interestingly last night, DD slept till 4.30 which is a very very long stretch for her. She was them up for a while and them up for the day at 6.40 so less night sleep than I'd like for her, but not bad for me!

Oh and a stupid question. I've been putting her down about 2 hrs 15 after her last nap for bed (unless she's missed her third nap). Shall I push this right back? To 2 hrs 40? 3 hrs?

Its hard to say hun as it all depends on the timing & length of that 3rd nap. If the nap is short then I'd say a shortish time awake before bed is about right, but if the nap is long eg yesterday she had an hour, then she will most likely need to be awake longer & have a slightly later bedtime.

Really the awake times you need to stretch the most are the ones earlier in the day, rather than this last one, so she takes 2 naps of a decent length.

Today looks like it will be a 2 nap day I think. She had 1.5 at 8.45 and went down at 12.45 for number 2. Am hoping for at least 1.5 there. So wont make a third I don't think. Will aim to put her down around 6 and hope for the best... Does that sound about right?

It depends, does she sleep all night?

It depends! Last night we had one wake at 4 ish for about half an hour, and then up at 6.45. The night before, up 2 or 3 times..

I preferred mine to stay up later, then sleep all night.
Do you have a wind down time and a bath?

Yup. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be that much correlation usually between going down later and sleeping longer for us. Although last night gives me some hope

Good luck!

Hope you don't mind if I update and use this thread as a bit of a sleep log. I feel so lost.

Woke from her nap at 14.30, so put her down for the night at 17.30. She was in a fine mood but obviously tired. In her cot, and immediately started to yip and play. Half an hr later, this turned into half hearted tired crying, and about 15 minutes later she was asleep (so 3.45 from wake up). Unfortunately, I went in to check on her and must have disturbed her because she's started crying again :(. Harder this time. Am going to do checks as patting or picking her up now seems to irritate her.