Napping at the nursery

[kefybaby]

We are having some trouble with DD1's (2.5 years old) sleep. She does not seem tired enough in the evenings and it takes us up to 2 hours every night to get her to sleep. Often by the time she has fallen asleep it is 22:00 in the night, which- evaporated evening aside- cannot be a good thing as she needs to be up at 7ish to go to nursery.
We asked the nursery to experiment with not putting her down for a nap (normaly she would sleep for 40-60 minutes at around 13:00) and for 2-3 days DD1 was finally asleep at 20:30 without too much effort (a story and a song - still not totally knackered). We thought that this would be a new chapter for us, until yesterday the nursery manager asked to see me and starting giving me this speach about how OFSTED would expect children at this age to sleep at nursery and how they are not allowed to deprive children of sleep. I was a bit shocked. I stated that of course if DD was tired in the day she should have a nap (the staff had said to me that on all 3 days when DD did not nap she had been given the chance to sleep but was still awake 15 minut later so they decided to keep her up) and was a bit shocked that I was made to look like I was torturing my child for the sake of an easy night.
Today the nursery decided that DD should have a nap, so she has only just got down after a lot of crying and stating that she is not tired. Bedtime routine started at 20:00...
Do nurseries have the right to decide on naps? Are there any OFSTED rules or have the nursery made them up because they'd rather get a midday break? Does anyone else have experience of their DC sleeping better in the night without a nap in the day?
Thanks for reading the long post!

8pm seems late to start bedtime? If my ds was overtired or we put him to bed too late, he'd take ages to sleep. Even if he went without a nap.

Have you tried earlier bedtimes,? Is she ok without a nap? If not then tweaking bedtime earlier (say 6.30) on a no nap day might be the answer.

I've no idea where your nursery gets its info from btw!!!

I used to work in a nursery and we frequently had children that age and younger who did not have a nap during the day. Some days they would be extra tired and would need to, but generally these days became few and far between.

My ds was only just 2 when I cut out his daytime nap (he was in the same nursery) and it made a huge difference to his sleeping at night.

To be honest you are the parent. It is your choice whether your child sleeps or not. I would suggest that you tell the nursery that if they need to let him sleep then fair enough, but for no longer than 40mins.

I'm in Scotland so ofsted not applicable here so I can't comment on that.

Sorry if this doesn't make a lot of sense, am on my phone and it's a nightmare to scroll.

Sorry just noticed you said dd. Apologies

Ready that makes absolute sense. It's good to know we are not the only ones and that other nurseries have no isuue with this. Thanks a lot.

Iggly, thanks for the suggestions. At 20:00 DD gets in bed and we read a story (or 2 or 3... ). We don't get back home from the nursery until 18:00. Either way, she is very lively and happy when she is back home - no signs of being tired at all. She tends to be fine without a nap. On the odd day when she happens to be tired I do not of course object to a nap at the nursery.

Ofsted are more interested in evidence that settings work in partnership with parents ime. I'd put it in writing to the nursery and ask for their policies in relation to naps and meeting individual children's needs.

Definitely up to the parents at the nursery I use, and lots of children have stopped napping by 2.5.

Out of interest what's your routine at the weekend and does she go to bed ok then?

Keeping a tired child awake is a nightmare at nursery +by 5pm can be not nice to know!!

Ask to let her have a power nap straight after lunch but max 30 mins then maybe start the windown to bedtime a bit earlier in evenings?

staines that's a very good point!

armed in the weekend she tends to be a bit more tired as the activities tend to be more energetic and different to her routine (e.g birthday parties, swimmimg). She therefore often has a nap if she is tired. If she sleeps later on a Saturday she normally sleeps longer on Sunday morning, so this is not such a problem, although actually getting her to sleep can be challenging.

Bossy DD is full of energy when I pick her up, even without a nap. I think we disturbed the nursery's "routine" because after lunch they put all toddlers down for a nap and get on with ther things or have a break. DD seems to be the only one up at that time (unless others are refusing to nap on certain days).

Things are getting worse. DD was put down for a nap again today. When I asked why I was told that the staff were given strict orders to put all children down for a nap. From now on staff are not allowed to wake children up either apparently (up to yesterday the nursery was obliging with many requests to only let toddlers sleep for 40/ 60 minutes). Unbelievable! I will follow staines's advice and see if anything comes out of this.

Yes, that does sound like nonsense to me. Go for it!

I have a similar problem with my nursery. DS has not napped in the day time for almost a year, he is 2.1. He refuses to nap and if absolutely fine without one, he has an early bedtime to make up for it.

He recently started a new nursery and the last two times he was there they told me they had put him in his pushchair and rocked him to sleep after lunch. I was fuming, as I had told them if he was sooo tired that he WANTED to nap that was fine, but I think forcing him to sleep by lulling him, against my wishes and his routine, is wrong.

I kicked off. At the end of the day I pay them to look after DS and it is their responsilbility to care for him in the way I say! If they do it again I will change nurseries. Makes me wonder what else they ignore.

I had this problem today and glad i just found a thread on it. I've asked my nursery to wake my little one of 2 years old up after 1.5 hour nap. I don't think that's unreasonble seeing as she doesn't nap at all most of the time at home. They have been allowing her to sleep for 2- 3 hours AFTER lunch so the bedtime routine is a disaster and she doesn't want to sleep until after 10pm, way too late for a toddler of this age. Nursery have told me they can't wake her, I know it's not the policy of all nurseries so i think i will have to look into alternative childcare as it's really taking it's toll on both myself and my little one being so thrown out of her routine. it's completely ridiculous.

Having read a few other threads and comments on the net, I have written a letter for the nursery confirming my permission for DD to be kept awake. Aparently a waiver letter has been the solution in some similar cases in the past.
It would seem that there was an issue with an inspection 4 years ago, although nothing is spelled in black and white in the EYFS guidance...
I have also made references to the nursery's obligation to work in partnership with parents to meet individual childrens' needs, as advised above (these requirements are indeed explicit in the EYFS guidance).
Let's see what happens. I am also thinking of alternative childcare as the last resort. This is ridiculous indeed.

This is a very interesting thread - I am having a similar problem. Dd (same age as yours OP) does not nap during the day with me - yet according to nursery she takes herself off to nap after lunch and cannot be persuaded to be kept awake! I have stated I don't want her to sleep as the days she is home with me we very rarely have problems at bedtime! They have ignored me and say that they don't let her sleek for more than 30 mons which I am also sceptical about - if she does drop off on the days she is with me she wakes up incredibly grumpy and sometimes inconsolable yet they maintain she springs awake no problem there!
We are actually moving her somewhere else but that is a whole other thread and that is only slightly related to the sleep issue but it still makes me cross
I think it is appalling the nursery manager spoke to you like that and as paying parents I think put wishes should be respected.