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Sleep

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Original poster

sleep training rocking hell

54 replies

katiegolightly · 09/09/2012 19:41

I'm battling with my almost 5mo. We're aiming for 3 naps a day and regular bedtime routine. As I've posted before, she has become hooked on being rocked / pushed in her pram to sleep - annoyingly, we are where we are!

The last few days we have tried and failed to get her to sleep without movement. With no bouncing (tried both PDPU and just holding her) she has cried through all of her day time naps (and missed them) and then fallen asleep on the boob at the 3.30pm feed (she doesn't normally nap after 3.30pm).

Tonight, again, we had bath, feed and bedtime and so far have had crying non stop for almost 2 hours. We have picked her up and held her but she will cry unless bounced vigorously. We have attempted to omit the bouncing entirely and held her with some shhh pat but she is crying like it's the end of the world.

I simply don't know how to remove this bouncing drug, she just cries and cries until the next feed and we start all over again. I just wish someone would convince me that this will work after x days because this just seems futile. We tried slowing it down, or just swaying, minimal movement but it's just not good enough. We have been very calm and patient with her in this so I don't think she's tense because we are.

It's not controlled crying (we're not leaving her without comforting her) but it feels like it knowing that the bouncing will stop the crying and not doing it and just holding her, because it's not what she wants and knows will get her to sleep.

Help.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

akaemmafrost · 10/09/2012 06:03

"battling my 5 month old" seriously!?

jaggythistle · 10/09/2012 06:06

jaggythistle · 10/09/2012 06:07

i wasn't just. d'oh.

Mandinga79 · 10/09/2012 06:30

OP - here is a story that sounds very like your situation. I'm neither recommending nor discouraging the route they took to solve it as it's entirely up to you but it might help to see you're not alone!

Mandinga79 · 10/09/2012 08:45

And akaemma - I think 'battling with a five month old' is called a 'turn of phrase' being used by a mum who's desperate for an answer, not an indication of her parenting style. I would also say I 'battled with my three month old' to get him to take a bottle occasionally, not out of some perverse competitive streak on my part, but because I needed a strategy that could help me manage better and therefore be a better mum overall for my child. I would suggest the same applies to OP. If she didn't want the best for her baby I don't think she'd be looking for help on somewhere like Mumsnet.

akaemmafrost · 10/09/2012 08:52

I few people took issue with the word "battling". I think it is a negative way to describe interactions with a 5 month old. If you consider yourself to be battling with a baby of that age then IMO you have unrealistic expectations.

seeker · 10/09/2012 09:01

From the link-" For the first time, I had to accept that I couldn?t buffer her from every struggle in life"

The baby concerned is 3 months old.

LostItYearsAgo · 10/09/2012 09:14

Is this going to turn in to another of those ridiculously boring threads where the poor OP just wants advice but instead gets slated by 2/3 very opinionated MNers?! Have a day off for gods sakes!
FWIW I actually agree that baby is still a bit young to be 'structured' but seriously people have some tact.

fififrog · 10/09/2012 10:38

Well said lostit. Lighten up folks! I'm sure the OP is not putting DC to bed on an empty stomach for heavens sake. My DD only fed to sleep for one month when she was seven months old and had started crawling and was too shattered to do otherwise. I rocked to sleep for hours, for months and it was certainly because she was tired and didn't know how to sleep. I fed her before bed but she didn't drop off and i fed her in the night until 9.5 months. Some babies just need rocking, I guess if you don't have one you won't understand how draining it is.

jaggythistle · 10/09/2012 10:40

The OP has said that baby will feed to sleep but the OP is choosing not to as she wants to avoid it. She also wants to avoid frequent feeding as she considers it 'snacking' and not a 'proper feed'.

We're not making it up!

Piemistress · 10/09/2012 10:51

Ok, so bubs has bouncing as a sleep prop, they don't know how to get to sleep without it, just like some babies can't get to sleep without a feed, the pram, the car etc. DS was the same but the prZm was his prop. We did something called gradual retreat to get him napping in his cot. There was crying but you are always there for them. After 2-3 weeks he was taking consistent 2 x 2hr naps in his cot at four months. Check out info on www.sleepstore.co.nz

Piemistress · 10/09/2012 11:11

Ps, my DD will only take naps if being held, so another sleep prop. She's only little at 12 weeks so going with it just now but will use gradual retreat again in a few weeks time

Original poster

katiegolightly · 10/09/2012 11:22

Ok, thanks for those who've posted supportive and helpful comments rather than taken this off track with silly semantics and rather unhelpful comments!

Let's get back on track here. Last night, I fed her for 25 minutes at bedtime, she slowed and slowed and dropped off, feeding often does that for her because we understand that is comforting and sleep-inducing. I waited a short while with her in my arms, she was heavy and asleep. I carefully transferred her and within 2 minutes, she had woken and the several-hour bouncing tale begins. She was not hungry. I can assure you I'm quite logical and sensible and not trying to get a hungry baby to sleep alone. What I know doesn't work is trying to get her back on the boob 20 minutes later to comfort her, I have also tried this as a comforter and she just won't take it so soon after the feed, it's the rocking she wants at this point, not the boob. Yes if I wait a bit longer (perhaps and hour and a half) she would start to be interested in the boob as an alternative comforter.

Quite simply, I'm trying to find a gentle way to reduce or remove a bouncing sleep prop. I'm not trying to fit my DD into a strict routine for my comfort or an easy life, I personally believe being able to settle herself to bed without movement could be beneficial. This has nothing to do with witholding feeding or any other nonsense. The good news is that after her dreamfeed she slept beautifully until 6am, which is lovely for all of us. It sounds as though the sensible advice concludes with:

a) It's not easy, but bear in mind her habits will continually evolve, she may need bouncing for every sleep now but perhaps she won't in a month (let's hope so re the weight issue!)

b) It might be worth trying to try a more structured pattern in a couple of months (although I assume the majority would agree a bedtime and naptime routine is still beneficial at this age?)

Thanks to those ladies who have come to this post to be constructive - it is appreciated!

OP posts:

Piemistress · 10/09/2012 11:29

www.thesleepstore.co.nz/sleep-information/infant-sleep/gentle-infant-sleep-information/gently-wean-your-baby-off-being-rocked-to-sleep

Haven't read in full but might be of use

Mandinga79 · 10/09/2012 11:30

Yes but jaggythistle OP has clearly said 'I know that she is not crying because she wants milk' (OP knows her baby a great deal better than you do), 'I believe it would be replacing one crutch with another' (which I think is probably true) and I would not let her cry in distress when she wants a feed (again, she knows her baby better than you do). Baby is crying because she is tired and wants bouncing to sleep which, while lovely for baby, is clearly NOT sustainable for mum and not the 'less stressful' option.

Sorry, OP, still no constructive advice from me but I just want it known that we don't all think you're starving your baby!

Rubirosa · 10/09/2012 11:38

Have you tried bouncing her almost to sleep, just so her eyes are closing, and then reducing it to gentle rocking/swaying? If she starts to cry go back to bouncing until she is almost asleep again and then start swaying, and keep repeating until eventually she drops off. The aim eventually is to have her fall asleep during the gentle rocking/swaying bit rather than the bouncing. Then once you have got down to rocking you can move to ssh-patting in the cot - I always find a fairly vigourous bottom pat (with the baby on their back or side) is a good stepping stone from rocking/bouncing as it makes their head wobble a bit mimicing movement

Another good trick I have found is to lie the baby on it's side on your lap, head towards your knees, and do the bottom pat.

akaemmafrost · 10/09/2012 11:59

I don't think she's starving her baby either, don't be ridiculous, but she is feeding her to a timetable which IMO is not what is best for a five month old baby who doesn't realise that her being hungry does not fit into her parents routine so she'd better like or lump it.

seeker · 10/09/2012 12:10

I don't think she is starving the baby either. But feeding is not just for food. And if she is a bit peckish a drop more milk might well help her to sleep. And if a baby is tired but crying and not going to sleep, then offering some more milk is one obvious solution to try.

fififrog · 10/09/2012 12:23

I did what Rubirosa just suggested, now I come to think of it, re calm the bouncing slightly as getting sleepy, but if cryin ensues start again a little more bouncily. You're probably trying that anyway though...

jaggythistle · 10/09/2012 12:28

if she wakes up what happens if you put her straight back to the boob? a lot of babies still do feed/sleep/feed a few times before finally conking out for a big sleep. kind of like cluster feeding but not for as long!

i also don't think you're starving your baby op, just making both your lives a bit more difficult!

JuliaScurr · 10/09/2012 12:32

www.amazon.co.uk/Solve-Your-Childs-Sleep-Problems/dp/0863181228

worked for me and some friends

jaggythistle · 10/09/2012 12:50

at less than 5 months Julia? i thought Ferber's methods weren't even slightly recommended under 6 months or preferably a year?

averagemum · 10/09/2012 13:01

op, have a look at the scienceofmom blog / website, by a mum and scientist who had and as far as I can tell resolved exactly your problem - she writes really well, and I've found it v helpful for my worries about my 5 month old's sleep. Hope that helps...

averagemum · 10/09/2012 13:06

ps. the 7 hour stretch post-bouncing sounds great, so she can settle herself back to sleep in that part of the night, as every baby would stir a couple of times within 7 hours; if it really is just a bedtime problem if it were me I'd probably ride it out for a little while longer and see what happens - don't worry about sleeping a couple of hours in pram if the big stretch is in her cot...good luck!

BobbieSox · 10/09/2012 13:29

Oh goodness OP - this is hard, isn't it. I had a bouncer too - and he wouldn't feed to sleep which I had entirely relied on with my first!

What I ended up doing was adding a comforter and carrying on the bouncing. Over weeks I turned the bouncing into basically rolling him back and forth in his cot, still with comforter. Reduced this to the point I can now give him the comforter and he will go to sleep no movement - this was roughly at 8 or 9 months I think?

You have my sympathy - your DC will grow out of it eventually, I never beleived mine would!

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