Struggling to get dd to sleep

[lizmarshmallow]

I know this has been done to death but I don't know what to do. My 16wo ebf dd is a crappy sleeper.

I have to feed her to sleep, or more accurately, until she's full and then I often have to pace the room shoogling her for anything up to 45 minutes. She lies in my arms peering out through tiny cracks in her eyes and I have to wait till she's asleep before I can put her in the cot. It can take 1.5 hours on a good night to get her to sleep.

I know I've created this problem but it stemmed from her constant feeding for the first 4 or 6 weeks. She never had to self settle as she would be feeding till 10pm and then just pass out.

During the day it's just as bad. She needs around 2 hours in the middle of the day or she's a crabbit madam. But just refuses to sleep. Today for example it took 1hr 30 to get her down and she only slept for 10 mins. I then tried to settle her when she woke and it took 20 mins to get her back down, then she only slept another 20mins! So I tried again, this time for 40 mins she then slept for 40 mins. Now she's up.

She's always been rubbish through the day but normally was only up once at night at around 2ish but in the last few weeks was up 2or 3 times and waking at 5am. I thought this might have been the 4 month regression so was glad on Sunday and Monday night she went back to normal. THEN came last night, started bed at 6 as usual and was still there at 9, just walking and rocking. I cracked and put her in her cot and went crying to DH. She eventually went down at half ten.

She won't take a bottle or dummy and I wish I'd never started feeding her myself. I'm trying various bottles etc slowly but she has no clue what to do with them.

I can't get her to take any other naps in the day either.

I don't want to get a sling as I have a bad back and co-sleeping isn't an option in my eyes as she just gets disturbed by us. She wouldn't lie in her pram so we've got her in the buggy bit but doesn't readily sleep in it either. She won't sleep on me and only sleeps a short while in the car. I know some babies don't need a lot of sleep but I'm sure this one does but just fights it.

I really want someone to say "do X" and she'll sleep but I know this isn't going to happen. I'm close to breaking point and just can't hack it anymore.

Sorry it's so long, just needed to vent, no need to reply!

I'll reply anyway.

Have you tried a white noise app? It's been a lifesaver with 18wo DS - before I used it he would not go down, with it I can get him in the pram for 3 45 minute naps. It's worth a try - there's a free version for the iPhone if you have one, if not the vacuum will do!

Thanks, I did try it once using YouTube on my iPhone but I couldn't do anything else or the noise would stop and I was dying of boredom. What's the name of the app? I'm also going to dig out an old iPod and put white noise onto it and play it on a loop through speakers.

The app is called Relax Melodies. The free one you can't do anything else on your phone if it's on, but the paid version runs in the background - I've got it on now. I find I have to put my phone into flight mode and pat DS's bum pretty vigorously too, but once he's asleep I pop him in the pram with the phone and he stays down until I put the kettle on

Hiya hun. So she only has 1 nap during the day at midday??? I think she sounds like she is probably rather overtired by the time you are putting her down for a nap & this may be why she is having such a hard time falling asleep & only sleeping a short nap of 10-30mins, & also why she is so unsettled in the evenings.

At her age she wants to be awake for around 1h 45-2hrs absolute max, before having a sleep. This is the total time between opening her eyes from her last sleep, to closing her eyes for the next sleep, so if she is awake for much more than this, I would suggest trying to put her down much sooner. You will need to start preparing her for sleep around 10-15 minutes beforehand.

Do you have a wind down routine in place? If not, its a good idea to establish a sequence of events that you can repeat in the same order before each & every sleep time. For eg change her nappy, cuddle her, sing some lullaby's or read a book, start to pat/sssh or rock her & get her nice & sleepy before popping her into her cot, drowsy but awake. If the ssh/patting soothes her you could continue this once she is in her cot, gradually easing off once she is settled. She should eventually start to learn that this sequence of events signals naptime is coming (babies love a predictable routine) & this will help improve how well she settles & sleeps.

HTH.xx

Hi I agree with omama - I introduced a naptime routine at about that age and although it took a couple of weeks it really helped. Also once his naptimes were better he was much easier to put down at bedtime. Our routine is singing the same song as we walk up the stairs, sit in his room, dummy in, we read the same story each time (the gruffalo - the rhymes seem to relax him), he has a sleep-time teddy bear to hold, he then falls asleep on my lap and I transfer him to the cot.

My ds used to sleep for 45 mins at a time and needed at least 3 naps during the day, 4 if he woke up particularly early.

Thanks for the replies. I knew she should be having more naps but it's so hard to get her to take them but it's maybe a lack of routine. So can I talk this over?

If she wakes at 6am she needs to be asleep again by 8. Say sleeps for an hourish and up at 9.

The bit I'm stuggling with is that she normally takes a wee feed at 6 and then more at 7. She then starts "nursing" (chewing and just faffing about!) for anything up till 8 then she's bright and will lie on her mat for a while.

I normally feed her in the bed in the morning so should I maybe be getting up and downstairs and holding off feeding her till after 7? Do as u say and bring her back up to my feeding chair, have a sing and cuddle then feed? Or should I try get away from feeding to sleep?

On occasion she'll fall asleep in her pram but she needs to be walked for around 30 mins. I could feed at 6 then start walking at half 7/8.

I really wish someone could come live with me for a few weeks and sort us out!!

This is how DS's day looks (v. roughly)

8.00 awake
9.00 out of bed (DH on summer holiday)
9.30 feed
10.30 sleep
11.15 up, quick feed
12.30 feed
1.30 sleep
2pm up, quick feed
3pm feed
4.30pm sleep
5.15pm up
7pm feed, sleep (he's asleep now)
8.00 up, straight back to sleep if I'm lucky
11pm up, feed, sleep

Then he wakes and feeds through the night, we co-sleep and I don't look at the clock until about 6am, when I feed him for about an hour, and he goes back off until 8ish.

Before that app, naps did not happen and the few that did, would require DS to be held.

Maybe rather than saying she should only be awake for 1 hour or 1.5 hours, maybe just be really alert for her sleep cues? If you start trying to get her to sleep when she's not ready then you'll end up stressing both of you out.

With her long feed session in the morning it sounds like she's using you to have a 'chill out' session instead of a nap if that makes sense. You could try maybe feeding when she wakes up and then distracting her (eg with toys) from milk until its nap time and then give her one before she drops off.

I would probably continue to feed her to sleep until her sleep pattern has sorted itself out. Once she's going down for naps and bedtime easily then tackle the feeding to sleep (if you want to!)

I used to follow (in a very relaxed manner) the EASY method which I think is by the baby whisperer - so your aiming for them to Eat, have an Activity (ie playtime), Sleep and then have some You time. I can't remember if he basis it on a 3 hour or 4 hour cycle for a child of your age.

I'm by no means a sleep expert, I just remember my ds being a nightmare at that age too. It did get better but you're right in that you need to intervene slightly to get it sorted.

Good luck, you will get there soon!!

absolutely agree with alfiebear - when I suggested 1h 45-2hrs max this is of course a guide. They are all different & some will need to fall asleep before this, some will go longer, but its the typical awake time for a baby of this age. I also used baby whisperer EASY method (that's where the suggested awake times came from & TBH I found them to be very accurate for young babies). The best thing you can do is look for tired cues, but keep in mind that suggested awake time. Perhaps observe her really closely for a couple of days before you actually implement an earlier nap, see if you can spot her first tired signs - she may go quiet & start staring, kind of a glazed look to her eye, she may do a rub of the eye, or start to yawn - when this happens you need to be acting to get her down asap. I seem to remember with my DS if I didn't get him down by the 3rd yawn he was already overtired & would just start to scream.

If you feed at naptime, really at this age if settling her to sleep with a feed works for you then by all means carry on - she is still so young & having those cuddles is so special. If it starts to become a problem i.e. she wakes repeatedly at night & doesn't know how to fall back to sleep without a feed & you end up feeding every couple of hours, then you may want to change things. Whether you want to change it up now, or wait til later, the way to do it would be to separate the feeding from the sleeping. So give her a really good feed when she wakes, then have some play time before her morning nap & then feed her again when she wakes from her nap, probably around 3-4hrs later.

Good luck!

It certainlysounds to me like you're trying to get her to sleep at the wrong time. That happened to me at some points and I got exactly that - hours of rocking for a 10min nap. At that age my DD would usually wake about 6.15 I'd feed her at 7 and she was basically an every three hour girl, so generally 7, 10, 1, 4, 7. She usually had an hour or so at about 8am, then 30-45 mins at about 11-11.30am, another 45 or so after the 'lunch' feed, and 30 mins about 3.30 or 4pm. She was pretty regular in her habits, but a rather rubbish napper.

I am sorry you're struggling with BF - I am sure if you can break this cycle I'd hope it would get easier. Everyone's different of course but I went through a bad patch with BF at that stage too, but it got loads easier when we started weaning at 5 months (talking of which, weaning helps get a routine together and not long for you now!) and incredibly I am still feeding her once a day at 17months!

You say you don't want a sling because you have a bad back. My back isn't fab, prob not as bad as yours, but to my mind it was the hours and hours of rocking an bending over cot that gave me awful back neck and shoulder probs last year, not to mention a wrist that still isn't right. I have not had any probs from using a sling. I avoided anything which went over only one shoulder. I have had 4 but the most long-lived and comfy is a Rose and Rebellion, which is pretty similar to an Ergo, and the weight is carried on the hips like a rucksack. I'd highly recommend either of those. Can you borrow one or go to a local sling meet to try? I have absolutely loved the sling and gutted she's now gettig a bit big.

Thanks agin for all bothering to reply, I really didn't expect anyone to.

So I've taken everything on board and started early today. Yesterday went well as she was forced into 2 naps, one at 10 and one at 4 ad I was out in a 40 mins car journey to the dentist and my mum took her a walk at midday so she had 3 30min naps. I think because of this it only took an hour to get her down and there was no pacing with her staring at me!

She woke at 6.20am and so far she's had a feed and I started pushing her round the house in her pram at 7.45am (after I caught her yawning, in fact she woke up tired). After 30mins of pushing she fell asleep. She's been sleeping for 30mins now so hopefully she'll have a wee bit longer.

I wasn't as sore feeding her last night as she hadn't been on for hours and hours the night before which made it more relaxing. I just spend my time reason mn and before I know it she's done!

Might need to come join the April 2012 group Fliss, I posted on the anti-natal thread and I've been lurking on the current one.