How can I help her?

[ComeTalkToMe]

This might be long - sorry I just really need some help and want to give all the information.

My 7 month old DD was an average sleeper until about 4 months, she woke for feeds and that was fine. She was down to around 1 feed a night. At 4 months she started waking every 45 minutes and wasn't hungry, needed rocked, patted back to sleep - this was hellish.

The situation has improved since then but she still wakes arond 4 times a night and generally ends up sleeping with me on a mattress in her room. This was fine but now neither of us are getting good sleeps and I am going back to work so really need to get her to sleep in her cot! My DH helps at night but he has his work too, so has to be able to function!

She's not a good napper, generally having very short naps, waking after 25 - 30 minutes and unable to get back to sleep. I generally have to hold her or be with her while she naps too.

She takes up to an hour to get off to sleep at night with us ssshhh-patting, holding her hand and stroking her face. We no longer lift her out the cot when putting her down as it seemed to make things worse.

I know lack of sleep is affecting her mood as frustratingly we had one week a few weeks ago when she napped well (nearly 2 hours at once one day - shock!!) and she slept well at night, through until 5am and she was so much happier.

So I assume the problem is she can't settle herself and needs our intervention but I don't know whow to stop this. I read the No Cry Sleep Solution bt it seems to be more focused on babies who are BF to sleep.

She is weaned and FF now.

Sorry for the essay, can anyone give any advice as I feel very down and a bit of a failure as a mother.

Thanks

You are not a failure at all so please don't think that.

I can't really help as ds1 was a good sleeper and ds2 is only 10 wo but have seen this in unanswered for a while so wanted to bump for you.

Will she nap well in the car or buggy? if so might be worth taking her out in the car or buggy at naptime for a week or so to try to break the overtiredness cycle.

Not sure if you have routines in place or not but my 7mo started napping a lot better when I gave him a nap time routine - darkened room, dummy, story (same story each time).

hi, dont know you have seen my posts but i too have a 7 month old who wakes alot in the night, pretty much every sleep cycle 45-60 mins. if i stick her on my boob fast she goes straight back to sleep but despite co slpeeing its making both of us tired. it takes me 2 hours to settle her to sleep at night most of the time.
i too feel a failure as i feel like all the other mums i know with good sleepers have been better than me and i ve done something wrong.

i cant offer advice every baby is different and they all tick in different ways. all i would say is that if mine doesnt have a decent long 2-3 hour nap in the afternoon she doesnt do well at all. having said that my friends 8 months old only cat naps 30 mins through the day here and ther and she sleeps through the night.
hope someone comes along with good advice.. virtual hugs, i know how you feel xxx

GOodness, you are not a failure! You are a fantastic mum - responding to your child's needs and being with her.

Don't assume that the naps/night sleep are related - babies have big developmental leaps and once each one is over, they do have a 'sleepy' day.

babies are good or bad sleepers despite what you do.

Could you do the co-sleeper cot thing - it's like a side car, then you can gradually move th cot.

You caould also try Sear's 'Babay Sleep Book' for responsive ideas which sound like theymight appeal to you?

Thanks for your responses everyone.

I'm just learning to drive so can't take her out in the car but she will sometimes nap in the buggy (after a crying fit!!) so could try that.

I haven't seen that book so I'll have a look. I suppose I'm worried that this is going to go on and on and tiredness seems to be having such an effect on her.

Thanks for saying I'm not a failure, it's just all the other mums I know seem to have good sleepers and she always seems grumpiest which I think is down to lack of sleep - it's a vicious circle

(((hugs))) hun you are not a failure. These LO's don't come with a manual & some are better sleepers than others. I find a lot of it is down to temperament too. I had a bad sleeper (as a younger LO) so I know where you are coming from.

does she have a daytime routine with regular(ish) naps? Can you post it for us so we can see when she wakes, naps & how long for & when she goes to bed? It might help us offer some suggestions.

IME taking naps as short as that is typically a sign of overtiredness, so it may be you are missing her sleepy window & need to get her down a touch earlier.

WRT night-time, if you want to get her back to sleeping in her cot & you prefer the gently does it approach, even though you are not bfing you can still use the principles of NCSS My DS was ff too & I used the BW sssh/pat approach to help him settle in his cot & then once he was falling asleep by himself (with my hand on him) I gradually withdrew that contact, gradually edged out of the room & was eventually able to put him down awake & leave the room, so very similar to what NCSS suggests.

The alternative BW method, if you want to see quicker results is to use PU/PD whereby you put her in her cot & if she cries you pick her up til she calms & then you immediately put her down. If she starts to cry you pick her up again & repeat repeat repeat, until she starts getting drowsy & shows signs she is going to settle then you hold back & see if she will go to sleep. There is no avoiding crying, she WILL cry because you are no longer sleeping with her, but the difference between this & CC or CIO is that you do not leave her to cry alone. Imagine if you have always slept with mum & suddenly you are plonked in a strange bed on your own & left to cry - IMO its really mean & your dd would just get really distressed. By staying with her she will know you are there for her. But you have to have strong resolve to see it through as its not fair to make her cry for nothing. If thats not your thing then I would def recommend looking at sssh/pat & be prepared to stick it out for a good few weeks until she is happily sleeping in her room.

HTH.x

Thanks omama, I do try to stick to a routine but depending on how long she naps it sometimes goes all over the place.

If she's awake at 6.45, which is the latest I can ever get her up, I put her down for first nap at 9. Sometimes get 30 minutes here sometimes less, then another nap at 12, again a struggle to get 30 minutes. Although the week she miraculously took longer naps it was this that was up to 1hr 30 mins. Then hopefully another 20 to 30 mins at 3 and bath and bottle at 6 to be asleep for 7.

I did try PU/PD at one point but it really seemed to stimulate her and she worked up into a frenzy. I was thinking of a gradual withdrawal approach similar to what you suggest but I think this would be tricky for night wakenings as I am so tired and it could take a while several times a night!

Well last night started well, DD went off to sleep with no crying, which is a first I think and was fab. Couple of early wake ups, dummy back in and straight off. She then woke at 2am, I brought her in and she wriggled and moaned until 4am when she was up for the day! If it's not one thing it's another - aaaarggh!

Hi, you replied to one of my threads a while ago about my DD and her exceptionally loud and distressed screaming....you said you were experiencing similar. Just wanted to say, my DD's sleep went from bad to better to an absolute nightmare and has only just started improving coinciding with her learning to walk unaided finally (nearly 5 months after she first stood up!). She actually slept through from 6 to 5:45 the night before last. A first (she's 13 months now). She's still screaming when we put her down for naps so still a way to go, but its much better than it has been.

I think with her, she finds developmental leaps/teething/jabs/insert any other possible issue, extremely hard to deal with and makes her really struggle to get to sleep easily. Cue lots of screaming.

Does this sound like your DD? Just wanted to offer you some light at the end of the tunnel and to say we have cuddled, rocked, coslept on occasion, anything and everything to help her through it and to ensure she and us get some sleep. Her scream is so full on that any sleep training techniques are pretty much a no go, just makes her worse and us feel bad. My feeling is she will grow out of it.

Sorry for the long post, hope it helps a bit

Oh and you are most def NOT a failure. If you are, then so am I and that can't be

DomesticGoddess31 thanks for that - it's good to know there may be light at the end of the tunnel especially as I sit here crying after a very hard bedtime with DD. She has cried and screamed for well over an hour (so far, DH has now taken over).

We've ssshh'd, patted, cuddled and rocked and she just continues being distressed. In fact, cuddling and rocking sometimes seem to make her worse, other times they help. She was fine just before bedtime. Now I am really upset, I just want to help her. I feel this is going to go on forever but your post gives me hope.

Your DD sounds so similar to mine, something works today but won't tomorrow. I know how stressful it is, have a big hug.

Just a thought, do you have a bedtime routine you do every night? I think with my DD its crucial to get those sleep cues embedded so she is sleepy enough to drop off IMMEDIATELY. If she doesn't fall asleep straight away she starts screaming and then we're in trouble.

If it helps, we do dinner at 5ish, then either a little bit of playtime or a bath alternating nights, into pjs, into her bedroom, a couple of books with a dummy, zipped into sleeping bag, warm milk, dummy, lay down in cot, kiss goodnight. She normally goes down no problem. We've done this routine pretty much since 3 months. The rest of the night is another story....but at least we have 1 thing cracked.

I've just introduced a shortened version before naptime and touch wood, its working so far.

That's exactly right, something works one night, not the next.

We do have a routine, have had since a cou

Oops a couple of months. Sometimes she goes down easily, other nights it takes 2 hours. And everything in between.

I must admit I feel very down tonight as her crying/ screaming sounds so distressed and I don't seem to be able to help her. I don't know anyone in RL who has anything other than a great sleeper and it's making me feel so alone!

Ok that sounds pathetic!!

You are most definitely not alone. Have you read the askdrsears website about high needs babies? I'm not saying your DD is high needs, but reading this site it was clear that mine sure is and it really made me feel better to know I wasn't alone. Google 'high needs baby' and its top of the list.

My DD has already woken up twice after bedtime this eve and we've had to be lightening quick (after we're sure she's not going to settle herself) to go in and insert dummy before she starts kicking off. No wonder I don't sleep well even when she is, adrenalin pumping!

I have started to read about high needs babies and I'm pretty sure she is! She likes to be held by me or my husband, although more recently will be happy cruising round the furniture with me by her side. She hardly naps, except on me or DH or with us in bed. She is quite demanding and I feel guilty for needing a break. I also sometimes feel like I have done something to cause this. People have said 'oh she'll get better at 6wks/ 3 months/ 6 months' and although things do get a bit better it's still really hard work.

I do love her to pieces and she is an amazing (and strong willed) girl but lack of sleep plus high needs baby = stress!

Thanks DomesticGoddess31 this chat helps, how old's your wee one?

Oh CTM, I have so often had those thoughts that its something I've done to make my DD this way but when I've had some sleep and thinking more clearly I know its just her personality and me and DH are just here to help her through it the best we can.

Things will get better when they get better. I don't think our DDs are reading the same manual as the majority of other babies! I console myself with the thought that it must be because she's uber clever and all those brain cells rapidly multiplying are hard for her to cope with

My DD is 13 months now, and although she's still screaming like I'm killing her at least once a day (when I tried to put her down for her nap this morning in fact), over the last month she has turned into the sweetest, cuddliest, most affectionate little girl ever. Having spent the best part of a year being seemingly unable to console my baby girl, its such a relief!

It will get better, I promise x

ps I recently reached breaking point and my DSis stepped in and had her overnight and then for a couple of odd days here and there to give me a break. DH took us to a spa for the day too. I feel SO much better and more capable to deal with her calmly. If you have family or friends who can help you, accept the help. There is absolutely no shame in needing a break. (and I can recommend a head massage if you can't afford a whole spa day!)

Thanks, it's really good to hear from someone a bit further on in this crazy journey! I've had a better day today, spending it with my mum and dad and in the main she was smiley and happy (apart from a breakdown at nap time - hey ho) and it's amazing how much better I feel.

My mum has offered to take her to give me a break and I think I will take her up on it soon! Your DD sounds lovely!